OT: Good Read about homelessness

[BobbyJones]

Thought I'd share as the subject comes up here every now and then.

I fell for the click bait title and thought it was a pretty good article, not leaning too far left or right and mostly avoiding governmental blame and sensationalism. Really focuses on people that are involved in the middle of this, not policy makers and "experts".

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/08/us/ho...rad/index.html

Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

[2LeftCleats]

Good read. Thanks for posting.

[jm714]

I deal with homelessness everyday as a city manager in california. The city I work for doesn’t have the resources to provide housing to these people, the tax structure in california is too limited. I know you’re going to say give me a break, but it’s true. We have tried hiring social outreach people, but it has been met with limited success, it takes a lot of contact hours to get these people to accept help. We have even found shelter for some that refuse to go. There are a number of beds available in the county where my city is to shelter the homeless. However, they typically have a religious affiliation and require some sort of spiritual lesson that the 9th Circuit doesn’t appreciate. There are estimates that over 30,000 of the homeless in California would be in jail if it wasn’t for the adoption of Prop 47 and AB 109 a few years ago, which decriminalized many crimes or made them misdemeanors that have no jail time. As an example if you leave a laptop in your car that is worth less than $900 and I boost it all I will get is a ticket if I get caught. Then you have nimbyism that makes things difficult. It’s gotten to the point that the suggestion of adding permanent supportive housing is being met with strong objections. I could go and on, but I wont.

[Dekonick]

Originally Posted by jm714

I deal with homelessness everyday as a city manager in california. The city I work for doesn’t have the resources to provide housing to these people, the tax structure in california is too limited. I know you’re going to say give me a break, but it’s true. We have tried hiring social outreach people, but it has been met with limited success, it takes a lot of contact hours to get these people to accept help. We have even found shelter for some that refuse to go. There are a number of beds available in the county where my city is to shelter the homeless. However, they typically have a religious affiliation and require some sort of spiritual lesson that the 9th Circuit doesn’t appreciate. There are estimates that over 30,000 of the homeless in California would be in jail if it wasn’t for the adoption of Prop 47 and AB 109 a few years ago, which decriminalized many crimes or made them misdemeanors that have no jail time. As an example if you leave a laptop in your car that is worth less than $900 and I boost it all I will get is a ticket if I get caught. Then you have nimbyism that makes things difficult. It’s gotten to the point that the suggestion of adding permanent supportive housing is being met with strong objections. I could go and on, but I wont.

There is a lot of truth here... a tough pill to swallow for many. I will add that there also is a complicated social need not being met regarding mental health access, addictions, among other issues. There are no easy answers. I do believe that one key element missing is community and relationship building - Without a sense of belonging and self worth, how can one be expected to believe any 'help' is geared for them and not for some other nefarious cause - after all, no one wants 'them' in their neighborhood... right? It is a tough issue. No easy answer.

[Drmojo]

Yes, multi-faceted heartbreaking problem.
No, early release and “slap on the wrist”
is the exact opposite of the problem
As a psychiatrist in the public sector, I have
worked in 7 California counties since
1987. I have seen the criminalization
of the mentally at the ground level:
jail, hospital, mobile crisis, and community
outreach. With vanishing mental health
and substance abuse services, local police
are unable to properly get folks the help
they desperately need. Our society has become
punitive and not compassionate. Police are woefully
unequipped to handle people with mental
illness-their training is— “command and control”
Or shoot first, ask questions later. I have treated
countless victims of misguided police brutality:
one fellow shot 5 times for wielding a crowbar 30
yards away from 4 officers. Crazy scares untrained
first responders. So I do understand their frustration
at the system. So when you encounter a homeless
person remember- they live in fear every day.

[XXtwindad]

Sobering article. There's a fine line between "them" and "us." Friends and family matter.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

Yes, multi-faceted heartbreaking problem.
No, early release and “slap on the wrist”
is the exact opposite of the problem
As a psychiatrist in the public sector, I have
worked in 7 California counties since
1987. I have seen the criminalization
of the mentally at the ground level:
jail, hospital, mobile crisis, and community
outreach. With vanishing mental health
and substance abuse services, local police
are unable to properly get folks the help
they desperately need. Our society has become
punitive and not compassionate. Police are woefully
unequipped to handle people with mental
illness-their training is— “command and control”
Or shoot first, ask questions later. I have treated
countless victims of misguided police brutality:
one fellow shot 5 times for wielding a crowbar 30
yards away from 4 officers. Crazy scares untrained
first responders. So I do understand their frustration
at the system. So when you encounter a homeless
person remember- they live in fear every day.

So much right here. ^^^^^^

I think crazy scares lots of folks and lock ‘em up looks like an easy answer. We’re building mental health court programs here and the results are good. Fewer crazy people locked up in jails and less crime and suffering because the people are engaged in a support system rather than being driven from society or incarcerated. Engagement is the key. Ignoring this problem guarantees you will see more.

[Dekonick]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

Yes, multi-faceted heartbreaking problem.
No, early release and “slap on the wrist”
is the exact opposite of the problem
As a psychiatrist in the public sector, I have
worked in 7 California counties since
1987. I have seen the criminalization
of the mentally at the ground level:
jail, hospital, mobile crisis, and community
outreach. With vanishing mental health
and substance abuse services, local police
are unable to properly get folks the help
they desperately need. Our society has become
punitive and not compassionate. Police are woefully
unequipped to handle people with mental
illness-their training is— “command and control”
Or shoot first, ask questions later. I have treated
countless victims of misguided police brutality:
one fellow shot 5 times for wielding a crowbar 30
yards away from 4 officers. Crazy scares untrained
first responders. So I do understand their frustration
at the system. So when you encounter a homeless
person remember- they live in fear every day.

Yes. Yes to everything you mention.

[bshell]

I live in Santa Cruz, CA. We attract homeless/addicts from all over the country because we have pretty nice weather, very lax policing, plentiful heroin, and tons of open space for illegal camping etc. I'd bet 75% are not from the area. We hand out unlimited free needles (good and bad idea), our police look away from theft/vandalism/property crime, and the state has de-prioritized/decriminalized drug use. I know there is a lot of overlap but I'd guess 30% have hit a rough patch and are down on their luck, looking to recover asap. Another 30% have serious mental health issues (oversimplifying a complex topic). The rest are addicts and dealers and organized thieves (w/their own MH issues). 60%(+?) would not go indoors under anyone's terms or restrictions. Entirely reasonable to fear/be cautious around crazy/addicted people because they can be even more unpredictable than the general public. Most are harmless but we've had several violent attacks (pipe, rocks, machete, etc.) and a couple of murders of complete strangers -not to even mention the homeless-on-homeless assaults. I have been threatened in town and out in the woods -where no one from law enforcement is coming to help you (because experience). Housing/employing these heavily challenged people in an insanely expensive, low paying community is destined to fail forever. I have ideas but they'll never happen.

[fiamme red]

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...less-camp.html

[oldpotatoe]

Good read, tough problem and hopefully this won't get too political.
Here in the republic, I've seen 2 homeless 'camps'..latest under the 9th street overpass, next to Canyon, close to library(for those familiar with Boulder).
About a dozen tents, tarps..saw 2 little kids(about 6-10 YO) standing next to one. Sad.. I guess the city os allowing such things BUT..with the $ thrown at ridiculous things, like a bloated and 'non strategy driven' DOD, government pet projects and roads to nowhere..it's appalling.

The Gross Domestic Product per capita in the United States was last recorded at 54541.70 US dollars in 2018. The GDP per Capita in the United States is equivalent to 432 percent of the world's average.

BUT too many politicians see 'help' as 'handouts to lazy people', 'welfare state', and other such pablum. I sure don't have a solution but the 'richest nation in the history of the earth', lacking political will, we continue to have this problem.

Housing/employing these heavily challenged people in an insanely expensive, low paying community is destined to fail forever. I have ideas but they'll never happen.

Let's hear it. In Boulder, I think the % of "The rest are addicts and dealers and organized thieves (w/their own MH issues). 60%(+?) would not go indoors under anyone's terms or restrictions." Isn't nearly that high but I really don't know. BUT pigeon holing this 'community', and trying to find a 'one size fits all' solution never WILL work.

BUT my point is our(local and federal government) $pemding priorities are all out of wack. 'Space Force'?? Really?

[biker72]

What I find sad is that the majority of the homeless here in the Dallas area seem to be veterans.

Unfortunately many of them prefer to sleep under a bridge rather than a shelter. Not being homeless I can't understand how that is safer for them.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by biker72

What I find sad is that the majority of the homeless here in the Dallas area seem to be veterans.

Unfortunately many of them prefer to sleep under a bridge rather than a shelter. Not being homeless I can't understand how that is safer for them.

Hard to say but putting that on a piece of cardboard doesn't a veteran make.
A lot were thrown out, some for good reasons, a lot were thrown for bad ones..like PTSD and how it either made them not compatible or resulted in drug use. Too many get thrown out for illicit drug use w/o finding out the whys of it. When I was in, it was 'recreational' drugs..now it's a form of coping or survival.
The VA isn't really helping(see $pending priorities above..space force, YGBSM...)...BUT they are getting better at recognizing and treating mental damage along with physical damage.

[Clancy]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

Yes, multi-faceted heartbreaking problem.
No, early release and “slap on the wrist”
is the exact opposite of the problem
As a psychiatrist in the public sector, I have
worked in 7 California counties since
1987. I have seen the criminalization
of the mentally at the ground level:
jail, hospital, mobile crisis, and community
outreach. With vanishing mental health
and substance abuse services, local police
are unable to properly get folks the help
they desperately need. Our society has become
punitive and not compassionate. Police are woefully
unequipped to handle people with mental
illness-their training is— “command and control”
Or shoot first, ask questions later. I have treated
countless victims of misguided police brutality:
one fellow shot 5 times for wielding a crowbar 30
yards away from 4 officers. Crazy scares untrained
first responders. So I do understand their frustration
at the system. So when you encounter a homeless
person remember- they live in fear every day.

Some very thought provoking comments. I would like to hear your suggestions for solutions.

I was in Vancouver in May for vacation. One of the most beautiful cities in the world, and being crushed by drug addiction and homelessness. Untold millions of dollars spent with the crisis only growing worse. I saw the future for the rest of the country. Something must be done.....but what?

[bart998]

Originally Posted by Drmojo

Yes, multi-faceted heartbreaking problem.
No, early release and “slap on the wrist”
is the exact opposite of the problem
As a psychiatrist in the public sector, I have
worked in 7 California counties since
1987. I have seen the criminalization
of the mentally at the ground level:
jail, hospital, mobile crisis, and community
outreach. With vanishing mental health
and substance abuse services, local police
are unable to properly get folks the help
they desperately need. Our society has become
punitive and not compassionate. Police are woefully
unequipped to handle people with mental
illness-their training is— “command and control”
Or shoot first, ask questions later. I have treated
countless victims of misguided police brutality:
one fellow shot 5 times for wielding a crowbar 30
yards away from 4 officers. Crazy scares untrained
first responders. So I do understand their frustration
at the system. So when you encounter a homeless
person remember- they live in fear every day.

Sorry, some right but much wrong here^^^ The homeless problem has been exacerbated by the prop. 47 catch and release rules. While jail is not ideal for mental treatment, it is also often the only option available and dumping them on the streets doesn't help them or anybody else. The mental health "system" needs a total overhaul so people can get the help they need before they harm or rob others and get locked up. As a recently retired police supervisor (31 years) in California, who also supervised in a jail mental facility, I have to disagree with the premise that letting minor offenders off is beneficial. Police are spending millions on mental health training for officers and creating specialized units to respond to their needs. Police have become the defacto mental health system in the absence of a medical one, referring people for treatment everyday without jail. They don't want the job but it has fallen to them since courts stripped apart the old system in the 1970's. If someone ends up in jail it's not because they are mentally ill, it's because they have committed a crime. If you are assaulted or robbed by a mentally ill person, the crime is real not mental. Since prop. 47 passed crime has shot through the roof, with criminals tailoring their crimes to fit the new rules so they can avoid jail time. So, not everyone it caused to be released is a mental patient, many are career criminals and will continue to be.

Lastly, I really don't appreciate promoting stereotypes with the "shoot first" comment, someone with that mentality wouldn't last long in today's LEO climate. It's not a good time for police who are frustrated by crime with no consequences, or your average, law-abiding citizen/victim right now in the once golden state.