Ingrid derailleurs

[charliedid]

Or is it pancrank?

[72gmc]

The little divots prevent pancake adhesion.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by charliedid

Or is it pancrank?

No, it's a cork puller for Lutherans. It'll work but the resulting pain will relieve the guilt for drinking wine instead of grape juice.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

No, it's a cork puller for Lutherans. It'll work but the resulting pain will relieve the guilt for drinking wine instead of grape juice.

Or Lingonberry juice :-)

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

They sorta remind me of when Paul Components released a rear derailleur. I think I heard him mention in a podcast once that it almost doomed him.

HA..first thing I thought of..An expensive, whizbang der that didn't work as well...

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

They sorta remind me of when Paul Components released a rear derailleur. I think I heard him mention in a podcast once that it almost doomed him.

I like this line from BIKE mag about the Paul derailleur story:

No, you couldn’t rebuild this XTR. And it didn’t come in any color other than dull grey. XTR, however, was so light, so precise and so overwhelmingly… awesome… that it simply crushed the anodized movement. As cool as it was to rebuild a derailleur, most riders preferred to bolt one on that never required rebuilding.

[54ny77]

funny!

i like the looks. it's different.

Originally Posted by charliedid

Swedish pancake flipper.

[HTupolev]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

And it appears that Ingrid makes only 1x rear derailleurs because they don't know how to make multi-chainring derailleurs.

Ever since Suntour invented the slant parallelogram derailleur in the 1960's, the superiority of this design was recognized by everyone. The design allows the derailleur to follow the cassette, even when shifting between front chainrings. When the patent expired in the 1980s, everyone soon adopted the slant design and it became nearly universal. Shimano, Campagnolo, Sachs, Mavic, SRAM, Microshift, etc., everyone uses the slant parallelogram design (or its cousin, the slant pushrod). Everyone except Ingrid, that it. Which is probably a good part of the reason their derailleurs aren't for 2x systems.

They're probably using a non-slanted derailleur because it has real advantages for clutched 1x applications. SRAM does this as well for their 1x derailleurs, and ever since launching Ekar, so does Campagnolo. Of the major manufacturers, Shimano is the weirdo.

The basic issue is, when a bike hits a bump, the chain puts a sharp tug on the rear derailleur.
In a typical unclutched derailleur, the tension cage pivot is the "weakest" spring being tugged at, so the derailleur cage swings and the chain flops around. This is non-ideal for drivetrain behavior, but it dissipates the energy in a way which mostly doesn't stress the derailleur very hard.

The situation changes for clutched derailleurs.
The clutch makes it so that the tension cage resists swinging in response to a sudden tug. Also, since a sprung b-pivot would partially defeat the purpose of the clutch - and since it would be basically impossible to balance usefully against a variably-behaved cage pivot - clutched derailleurs generally do not use a sprung b-pivot.
So when the chain tugs at the rear derailleur, what happens?
In the case of an unslanted rear derailleur, nothing much happens. The cage pivot barely budges because of the clutch. The b-pivot doesn't move because it's rigid. And the parallelogram doesn't move because it pivots on an axis that's completely perpendicular from the chain's tug. All of these elements take the impact, but they're all generally big and beefy by default anyway.
But in the case of a slanted parallelogram, the parallelogram is not entirely off-axis from the chain's tug. And in this situation, it is now the weakest spring being tugged at. When a bike hits a bump, it will jolt the parallelogram and give it a sharp small actuation. This sloppy behavior often won't do anything obvious, but it can put sharp bursts of tension on the shift cable (if you're in the middle of the cassette) or sharp impacts on the limit screws (if you're on the ends).

Clutched rear derailleurs for multi-ring drivetrains usually just accept the compromise because of how the slanted parallelogram isolates the RD from front shifts. But for 1x drivetrains, especially those intended for seriously rough riding, there are good engineering reasons to use a dropped parallelogram: it's just more stable and inherently durable.

[jc031699]

The use of 12s campy for 1x seems appealing due to backward wheel compatibility with 9/10/11/12 freehubs. Probably the 12s campy-compatible 1x RDs would work with 9/10/11 road shifter too right? Based on within-campy RD compatibility....

The 1x sram-compatible RDs make no sense at all due to all of the SRAM 1x road groups and SRAM MTB clutched RDs already being compatible with road shifters.


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[charliedid]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

funny!

i like the looks. it's different.

I love it.

The thread got weird but funny.

[verbs4us]

It's the next gen of drillium: Dentium.

[verbs4us]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

HA..first thing I thought of..An expensive, whizbang der that didn't work as well...

Paul is the bomb. He didn't fail. He just found one design that didn't work.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by verbs4us

It's the next gen of drillium: Dentium.

Haha

I think if you wrap some copper wire on the chain stays and pedal really fast it picks up Radio Stockholm.

[9tubes]

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Compared to Boone, it's the opposite end of the crank spectrum.

OOOHHH!! A bedazzled crankset!

[9tubes]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

...while the Ingrid looks (and is named like) some cheap utensil found in the Ikea kitchen section.

IKEA actually has an Ingrid: link