1 ship has delayed over 100 others!... UPDATE! - Page 9

Dead Man · #**121** 04-13-2021, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tctyres

Maritime salvage law applies to ships in distress. Egypt is entitled to a reward for helping the Ever Given. What should that number be? Who really knows?

The value of the ship is the real value, so hardware plus containers. To the owners of the ship, there is also opportunity cost (or value). Egypt can ask for whatever number it likes. The opportunity cost is the thing that the owners of the ship always want to maximize --- future use of the ship.

$1B is just a starting point. Will Egypt get that? Probably not. Will they get some fraction of that? Absolutely. It's going to be a negotiation with the ship owners. The ship owners will negotiate with the insurance companies.

again, and as someone who used to write contracts for a living, seems like this is something that should already be addressed in the service agreement/contract ahead of time, and everyone ought to know exactly what the additional cost should be. i've never been involved in a contract that didn't cover pretty much 100% of possible incidentals - if nothing else, our construction contracts always included one clause that specified "any additional work required or requested will be billed for time and material at $____/per man-hour and 15% material burden." there were never any surprise costs, and i'd never get involved in an agreement that didn't cover all possibilities, myself. but these are obviously totally different industries.

tctyres · #**122** 04-13-2021, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead Man

again, and as someone who used to write contracts for a living, seems like this is something that should already be addressed in the service agreement/contract ahead of time, and everyone ought to know exactly what the additional cost should be. i've never been involved in a contract that didn't cover pretty much 100% of possible incidentals - if nothing else, our construction contracts always included one clause that specified "any additional work required or requested will be billed for time and material at $____/per man-hour and 15% material burden." there were never any surprise costs, and i'd never get involved in an agreement that didn't cover all possibilities, myself. but these are obviously totally different industries.

Yes, I see your point. When I worked in HVAC, we had a specific cost structure similar to what you wrote here. I won't claim to be an expert in maritime salvage or contracts; and I agree that the optics of Egypt holding the ship are peculiar.

RonW87 · #**123** 04-13-2021, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Louis

Egypt would have to declare war against Taiwan and/or Japan in order to do that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conven...Constantinople

"On June 5, 1967, during the Six-Day War, Egypt closed and blockaded the canal against Israel. The waterway reopened on June 10, 1975. The 14-state Multinational Force and Observers (MFO) currently oversees the terms of the peace treaty over the canal, which is owned and maintained by the Suez Canal Authority of the Arab Republic of Egypt. According to the international rules which govern navigation through Suez, Egypt cannot forbid any vessel from passing through the Suez Canal if there is no war between Egypt and that country.[6]"

They have already seized the boat. Clearly Egypt (probably rightly) don't interpret the Convention as prejudicing their commercial/maritime law rights against Evergreen. I don't think exercising rights against other Evergreen-owned assets would trigger the Convention either. So no need to declare war.

CNY rider · #**124** 04-13-2021, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tctyres

Maritime salvage law applies to ships in distress. Egypt is entitled to a reward for helping the Ever Given. What should that number be? Who really knows?

The value of the ship is the real value, so hardware plus containers. To the owners of the ship, there is also opportunity cost (or value). Egypt can ask for whatever number it likes. The opportunity cost is the thing that the owners of the ship always want to maximize --- future use of the ship.

$1B is just a starting point. Will Egypt get that? Probably not. Will they get some fraction of that? Absolutely. It's going to be a negotiation with the ship owners. The ship owners will negotiate with the insurance companies.

But what about the contents of the containers?
Let's say there's a container of Nike sneakers that were headed here.
Nike produced them, and loaded them for transit here to be sold.
Don't they still own their sneakers?

Velocipede · #**125** 04-13-2021, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNY rider

But what about the contents of the containers?
Let's say there's a container of Nike sneakers that were headed here.
Nike produced them, and loaded them for transit here to be sold.
Don't they still own their sneakers?

Technically, yes. But what would happen is just like if you personally shipped/mailed something. You carry insurance on that item and the shipper would pay for it. So while Nike owns it, Evergreens insurance would pay them for the loss.

Funny thing is is Egypt, if they keep the boat, they can still collect damages and labor for getting it unstuck AND not return the boat. PLUS, they can sell off everything on it. Some serious double dipping!

tctyres · #**126** 04-13-2021, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocipede

Technically, yes. But what would happen is just like if you personally shipped/mailed something. You carry insurance on that item and the shipper would pay for it. So while Nike owns it, Evergreens insurance would pay them for the loss.

There is probably some time constraint in there, too. For example, Evergreen has X days to deliver. The insurance isn't going to pay out before full time, especially when they know where the ship is.

The whole thing is fascinating in a slow-train-wreck sorta way.

tctyres · #**127** 04-14-2021, 12:19 PM

It looks like Egypt is clarifying the bill and perhaps lowering the total number: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-56743556

A spokeswoman for Shoei Kisen Kaisha confirmed to Agence France-Presse that the Ever Given's fate was "in the legal arena"

Ozz · #**128** 04-14-2021, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CNY rider

But what about the contents of the containers?
Let's say there's a container of Nike sneakers that were headed here.
Nike produced them, and loaded them for transit here to be sold.
Don't they still own their sneakers?

There could also be some trade finance involved...

Nike purchased sneakers, but doesn't pay until shipping container arrives and contents are verified...at that point they "own" them....until then, the bank holding the Letter of Credit is guaranteeing that is what is in the container.....

Not 100% sure how this works....way outside my wheelhouse!

tctyres · #**129** 04-18-2021, 01:58 PM

Apparently, this ship is now responsible for a garden gnome shortage:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/u...l-b930123.html

makoti · #**130** 04-18-2021, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tctyres

Apparently, this ship is now responsible for a garden gnome shortage:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/u...l-b930123.html

I wasn't aware it was possible to have a shortage of those

sokyroadie · #**131** 04-18-2021, 04:12 PM

I ordered a flip/flop boat seat on 3/21 they said the Suez issue is the reason I don’t have it yet. Not sure what they source from overseas foam, vinyl, rotomolded plastic base ????

VC Slim · #**132** 04-18-2021, 04:24 PM

A friends Porsche delivery date was pushed back three weeks. The reason given was the blocked canal.

reuben · #**133** 04-18-2021, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tctyres

Apparently, this ship is now responsible for a garden gnome shortage:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/u...l-b930123.html

I sure hope my new pink flamingos aren't in one of those containers.

BobbyJones · #**134** 04-18-2021, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makoti

I wasn't aware it was possible to have a shortage of those

I hope my painted "live, laugh, love" sign isn't in the container next to the gnomes!

Dead Man · #**135** 04-20-2021, 03:36 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty-m4pm8oog

this isnt that informative, with most pertinent info not being public yet, but might be of interest to some.

lemme also use this as an opportunity to promote my dawg Grady's channel in a general way. Practical Engineering is one of my favorite nerd channels. many vids go into technical detail thats over my head, but the point - and he usually hits it - is to explain highly technical civil engineering issues in a way most not-that-smart-but-kinda-smart folks can digest.