Know the rules The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > Bike Fit

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-14-2021, 02:02 PM
stackie stackie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,121
Sliding to one side of saddle

Quick question,

Does sliding off one side of saddle indicate that there may be a leg length discrepancy?

I notice I am developing a tendency to slide off to th right side of my saddle. Every so often, I’ll just recenter. Cycling for 30 plus years. Just noticing recently. Maybe a little leg length discrepancy and exacerbated by another factor cropping up as I age?

Worse on brooks cambium c13 vs SLR saddle. But those are also different bikes though the geometry is very close on both bikes.

Developing a little callous on the taint in the left too. 😢

Tried rotating saddle a little to right and lowering which didn’t help at all.

Thoughts?

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-14-2021, 02:31 PM
Tickdoc's Avatar
Tickdoc Tickdoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: TUL
Posts: 5,131
Any leg injuries?

I had acl surgery on my left knee years ago and at affects both the length and the rotation of the leg at times causing more chamois wear on one side than the other.

Any chiropractor/pt should be able to tell you if one leg is shorter than the other.
__________________
♦️♠️
♣️♥️
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-14-2021, 02:33 PM
jkbrwn's Avatar
jkbrwn jkbrwn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: South Pasadena, CA
Posts: 1,486
Yes, it absolutely could indicate a discrepancy. Do you feel like you're dropping your right hip at all? To me, it feels quite noticeable.

I have a known leg length discrepancy (osteopath diagnosed it over a decade ago) and despite fitters telling me it didn't matter for a number of years, I finally took it upon myself to shim my left cleat a month or so ago and it made a world of difference. No more dropping my left hip, or over extending my left ankle at the bottom of my pedal stroke.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-14-2021, 03:23 PM
stackie stackie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,121
Thanks,

Per the orthopedic surgeons I work with, almost everyone has some degree of a leg length discrepancy. I’ve never felt the need to get a formal evaluation for it.

I’ve never had an lower extremity issues outside of ITB syndrome decades ago. I do notice my hips are getting tighter as I age. Know I need to do more pigeon pose and stretch more. My presumption is that as I am aging, the general tightening of muscles and tendons is exacerbating a previously non significant discrepancy.

I don’t notice any increase in hip rocking, but I have to say I’m not a princess and the pea sort of guy on the bike.

I’m thinking of trying a small shim on the right to see if that helps. In addition to increasing stretching.

Thanks

Jon
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-14-2021, 03:50 PM
Tim Porter Tim Porter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 742
Stackie, any chance you have an imbalanced or tight QL muscle (lower back) that spazzes on you occasionally? I did and before I did some stretching/trigger point therapy (basically lying on my back with a tennis ball under the relevant side of my lower back at the painful site just above the pelvis), I sat a little crooked on my bike. I did not seem to have lost any smoothness or symmetry to my pedal stroke, but I was always canted a little off to that side. After learning what was up from a very good local chiropractor, it's been a game changer for me when my back "goes out". I can make it go away much more quickly now that I've learned the solution. I'm pretty sure I don't have much discrepancy in my leg length, btw, though there's inevitably some.

Something to consider . . . .

HTH, Tim
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-15-2021, 03:13 PM
David Kirk's Avatar
David Kirk David Kirk is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bozeman MT
Posts: 7,733
It could be all too many things -

- saddle too high

- saddle too narrow so that both sit bones are not supported

- side-to-side difference in ankle/knee/hip/lower back flexibility

- tightness in lower back

- and of course it could be a leg length discrepancy

One of the things I've learned about myself and some of the riders I've worked with is that a saddle that is too narrow can be at the root of many issues. If both sit bones are not supported we have the tendency to list to one side so that at least one of them is supported to take pressure off soft tissue. This will result in lots of things including pressure sores on one side of the taint.

The good thing is that if it is a saddle width issue that this is pretty easy to address and experiment with. I'd recommend trying one of the short and wide saddles that look a bit goofy but work so very well. Look in the 150+ mm width range. The Shimano works very well for me and many others and I've heard very good things about the short/wide Fizik saddles. Many find that the first thing that they notice is how much more squarely they sit on the saddle since both sit bones are supported. A very good thing.

Try one for a few rides and see how it goes. if it doesn't help the issue you can flip it and look for bigger issues....but grab the low hanging fruit first.

dave
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-15-2021, 04:20 PM
Kyle h Kyle h is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 686
I would guess it’s more muscular if it’s a recent onset. Could be tightness in back or rotated pelvis. Both pretty easily resolved with some stretching and strengthening.
__________________
S-Works SL6 - Aspero
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:04 PM
parris parris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,830
There are a lot of good things that have been brought up.

Have your shoes, insoles, cleats changed? Could a cleat have shifted maybe?

Just another thing to check out.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:49 AM
joevers joevers is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,217
Lower your saddle, focus on stretching for a while, and read up on shims for your cleats.

David kirk's suggestion on the wider snub nose saddles like fizik or specialized is probably great. I've got narrow hips and never had a saddle too narrow, but certainly see how it could lead to problems described. I wouldn't rotate your saddle, I can't imagine that will do you much good, just relocate the problem to somewhere else like your back or knees.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-16-2021, 10:25 AM
stackie stackie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,121
Thanks!

OK

Lots of good info here. I’m going to drop the saddle a touch and work on stretching more. If it’s not solved, I’ll shim a little and try a new saddle.

Thanks, Jon
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-16-2021, 05:49 PM
cinema cinema is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by stackie View Post
OK

Lots of good info here. I’m going to drop the saddle a touch and work on stretching more. If it’s not solved, I’ll shim a little and try a new saddle.

Thanks, Jon
i would definitely start with this, starting from the easiest troubleshooting methods to the hardest. im 32 and already having to lower my saddle despite being in good shape my whole athletic life
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-16-2021, 07:25 PM
John H. John H. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,311
Pushing into saddle on 1 side

Could be any of the things mentioned.

But my vote is for tight IT band (likely tighter on 1 side than other).

Could also be Q-factor/pedal width. Maybe one side needs to be wider.

I had this same thing for the past few years. In fall of 2020 I injured my hip. Caused me to take about 6 weeks away from training on the bike.
When I started again (on trainer). I had none of these issues. I was no longer pushing in and the callous on the left side of my crotch went away. It has not returned.
For some reason I seem to be sitting square now. Maybe every thing loosened up for me?
No crotch issues- And I even stopped using chamois creme.
BTW- Is it possible that chamois creme is the issue? Chamois creme might allow you to slide around more- And also softens up the skin.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-17-2021, 04:13 PM
stackie stackie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,121
Follow up

So yesterday did a 45 mile ride, after lowering the saddle about 2mm. Very interesting in that I felt cramping in right leg almost immediately, through the entire posterior chain muscles. I had not mentioned that I have had a R L5/S1 discectomy about 20 years ago and still have some residual stable numbness. Presumptively, due to permanent nerve injury before the discectomy.

I would say the sliding to the right was less. Likely due to the lowered saddle height. By the end of ride the cramping of right leg had actually improved.

I’m really starting to lean more toward the theory of increased tightness of the right leg musculature, perhaps exacerbated by some degree of chronic nerve injury. Of course, there is always the possibility of worsening nerve impingement that I’ll need to keep an eye on.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-26-2021, 11:42 PM
jimmy-moots's Avatar
jimmy-moots jimmy-moots is offline
SAVETHERIMBRAKE
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,375
While not implausible, it is surprising that 2mm had the effect you described. After all, a worn/compressed chamois versus a new one could easily make up a few mm in stack height.

And you are going in such a way that should be relieving over extension on that right hand side, which makes the cramp intriguing.

I personally find that one of the problems with making changes on the fly - particularly if you are trying to fix something - is that it's not a scientific experiment. The changes you make may be already affected by a previous poor fit issue.

What I'm getting at is it it can be muddy and difficult to determine causation from correlation. Was it the saddle height drop that caused a cramp, or were you always going to cramp on that ride because your fit had created some overuse injury/problem, or was the cramp just because your nutrition was off?

Sometimes it's obvious - raise saddle by 10mm and then you get tightness in your hamstrings, drop your bars by 10mm and get a sore back... but when we are talking a mm or two in the direction that should relieve an issue and it spawns something else... to me it seems unusual and may be either a red herring or super concerning.

It may be worth seeking the advice of a fitter, preferably in person, so they can assess your position with a proper understanding of your history etc.

Disclaimer: I know nothing of your position or history or any of that, general advice and I do know that a mm or two can be the difference between pleasure and pain!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-27-2021, 06:25 PM
djg21 djg21 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saratoga, NY
Posts: 4,809
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy-moots View Post
While not implausible, it is surprising that 2mm had the effect you described. After all, a worn/compressed chamois versus a new one could easily make up a few mm in stack height.

And you are going in such a way that should be relieving over extension on that right hand side, which makes the cramp intriguing.

I personally find that one of the problems with making changes on the fly - particularly if you are trying to fix something - is that it's not a scientific experiment. The changes you make may be already affected by a previous poor fit issue.

What I'm getting at is it it can be muddy and difficult to determine causation from correlation. Was it the saddle height drop that caused a cramp, or were you always going to cramp on that ride because your fit had created some overuse injury/problem, or was the cramp just because your nutrition was off?

Sometimes it's obvious - raise saddle by 10mm and then you get tightness in your hamstrings, drop your bars by 10mm and get a sore back... but when we are talking a mm or two in the direction that should relieve an issue and it spawns something else... to me it seems unusual and may be either a red herring or super concerning.

It may be worth seeking the advice of a fitter, preferably in person, so they can assess your position with a proper understanding of your history etc.

Disclaimer: I know nothing of your position or history or any of that, general advice and I do know that a mm or two can be the difference between pleasure and pain!
It would seem that ankle flexion and extension would offset such a small change in saddle height, just as it does with small leg-length discrepancies. I’m not a fitter and do not have a medical background, but my suspicion is that this may be a flexibility issue and stem from your old back injury. Maybe the OP should talk to his orthopedist or physician and perhaps see if some PT and stretching might be in order or if there is an underlying physical issue? Then he can schedule a bike fit with someone qualified to address his issues.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.