Mainstreaming the disc brake

[Volksbike]

Originally Posted by mcteague

I certainly would consider discs on the new bike mostly for their ability to take larger diameter tires. That is one recent trend I fully support.

Tim

I agree for a new bike to consider discs. Room for bigger tires plus better for braking on carbon wheels vs pads. I have had disc brakes on my MTBs for past several years and older canti brake parts are getting hard to find at the lbs. However I just bought a new Ultegra Groupo with rim brakes since that's what I run on all my road bikes and the rims are interchangeable, etc.




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[Mattre]

Originally Posted by dddd

I see this as being like the clothing industry, which manages to sell many times more clothes by managing an endless calendar of "runway" events intended to encourage buyers to want something different each year, leaving last year's style to gather dust in closets and thrift stores.
Once the disc changeover reaches it's peak, a new system will already have been planned and designed to take it's place, to make buyers want something different once again. The industry players work in secret to build their better mouse traps, but are willing to collude in order to assure that standards exist for interchangeability between brands, and also license their patented technology to one another...

I feel like they did this with mountain bike wheels. Why did they skip 27.5 and release 29 first? 27.5 feels like the happy medium to me.

[oldpotatoe]

dddd-"The industry players work in secret to build their better mouse traps, but are willing to collude in order to assure that standards exist for interchangeability between brands, and also license their patented technology to one another...

Not really..MTB/road disc brakes wee parts, BBs, chainrings, shifter/der compatibility...maybe cables and chains but dern little else. Ever see a shimano threadless headset? Or maybe a non shimano octalink BB?

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Volksbike

I agree for a new bike to consider discs. Room for bigger tires plus better for braking on carbon wheels vs pads. I have had disc brakes on my MTBs for past several years and older canti brake parts are getting hard to find at the lbs. However I just bought a new Ultegra Groupo with rim brakes since that's what I run on all my road bikes and the rims are interchangeable, etc.




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It's been oft repeated here and on other cycling forums too that the versatility that discs bring is desirable and it's braking with carbon wheels is perceived as a plus. But your line about the ability to use bigger tires has to be one the biggest reason why disc have gained a foot hold and that push was driven by consumers, much to the chagrin of the conspiracy theorists.

[rzthomas]

LOL at the conspiracy theories about disc brakes being forced on us. They worked great on mountain bikes and then started filtering over to CX bikes. After people noticed that they were a better option than cantilevers, people started looking at incorporating them on road bikes. It seems like a natural progression to me, similar to any other technological evolution.

Also we consumers asked for this stuff and bike companies were more than happy to oblige. Their business models rely on selling more and more bikes each year and responding to, and more importantly, anticipating consumer demand so selling race bikes with disc brakes seems to make a lot of sense.

Anyway, I am about to put an order on one of those gloss oil chameleon framesets to build up with Dura Ace. That thing is hot.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Mattre

I feel like they did this with mountain bike wheels. Why did they skip 27.5 and release 29 first? 27.5 feels like the happy medium to me.

The market generally disagrees with you here.

29" came first because it was better. 27.5" was a way to get all the "26 for life" people to actually try a bigger wheel (and because mfgrs were having trouble packaging 29" wheels, long-travel suspension, wide tires, and short chainstays - all generally solved by 1x drivetrains and boost spacing). It's really only used on enduro and DH bikes (and many of those are 29" now).

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Burnette

It's been oft repeated here and on other cycling forums too that the versatility that discs bring is desirable and it's braking with carbon wheels is perceived as a plus. But your line about the ability to use bigger tires has to be one the biggest reason why disc have gained a foot hold and that push was driven by consumers, much to the chagrin of the conspiracy theorists.

This. I wanted to run true 30mm width tires on an aero road race bike. I prefer discs anyway (they've been on my MTB since 2000). When I got a CX bike it was disc too as I can swap wheelsets. Can run 43c tires on that one.

Better, more consistent braking, more tire clearance, and a CX bike that can be a crit bike in a pinch (and an aero road bike that can race moderate gravel). Versatility FTW.

[Calnago]

Jack of all trades, master of none.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Calnago

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Well, I won a crit on the CX bike last week.

On the other hand, the industry could continue selling us a different bike for road, gravel, adventure, light trail riding, winter cycling, commuting, etc, and you all could complain about that industry conspiracy instead...

ETA: if you care more about "collecting" bikes than using them, or have the disposable income to have a different rig for every possible drop-bar riding situation you could possibly encounter (and the desire to maintain such a quiver), then I get the skepticism. Otherwise, this is great for a lot of people.

In my masters' crit today, a former (1990s) domestic road pro nipped me at the line for the win, on a Raleigh CX bike with aero wheels and disc brakes. A current national-level CX and MTB pro won the P/1/2 on a Kona CX bike with aero wheels and discs. Yes, it's the engine (and skills) that count - but people are using these more versatile bikes in cool ways, and aren't being held back by doing so.

[tylercheung]

I feel like at the state of current tech - alloy wheels and metal frames - for road bikes disc just incur too much trade offs, weight and costs. For allroads and gravel, the trade offs make sense

For carbon frames and wheels they make sense

[Mark McM]

Yes, bike manufacturers want consumers to buy disc brake bikes. Not for the conspiracy-minded "they want to force discs down everyone's throat" reasons (or not exactly, anyway), but for the simple reason that it would reduce their costs, and therefore increase their profits.

Disc brakes are basically the lowest common denominator, in the sense that it is coming to the point where more people will refuse to buy a bike because it has rim brakes, than will refuse to buy a bike because it has disc brakes (there is also a group of people who are ambivalent about the brake type, as long as the bike does what they want). It costs the bike companies (and retailers) money to design, produce, and stock bikes in both rim and disc brake models. Therefore, it makes business sense to only make the version that will sell the most. The marginal cost of also making rim brake models available may not be low enough for the number of extra bikes they might sell.

The long and short of it is this: If 8 out of 10 people that came into the bike shop walked out with a disc brake bike, the bike manufacturers will not make rim brake bikes for those 9th and 10th people who want a rim brake bike. But they still want to sell a bike to those people, so yes, the bike companies want to get people to buy a disc brake bikes.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Yes, bike manufacturers want consumers to buy disc brake bikes. Not for the conspiracy-minded "they want to force discs down everyone's throat" reasons (or not exactly, anyway), but for the simple reason that it would reduce their costs, and therefore increase their profits.

Disc brakes are basically the lowest common denominator, in the sense that it is coming to the point where more people will refuse to buy a bike because it has rim brakes, than will refuse to buy a bike because it has disc brakes (there is also a group of people who are ambivalent about the brake type, as long as the bike does what they want). It costs the bike companies (and retailers) money to design, produce, and stock bikes in both rim and disc brake models. Therefore, it makes business sense to only make the version that will sell the most. The marginal cost of also making rim brake models available may not be low enough for the number of extra bikes they might sell.

The long and short of it is this: If 8 out of 10 people that came into the bike shop walked out with a disc brake bike, the bike manufacturers will not make rim brake bikes for those 9th and 10th people who want a rim brake bike. But they still want to sell a bike to those people, so yes, the bike companies want to get people to buy a disc brake bikes.

I think that the biggest thing people in this thread is overlooking from that link about the aluminum framed Specialized Allez Sprint Disc is, yes, it went disc but it stayed aluminum and didn't switch to carbon. Why? Because as you stated above consumers displayed a demand for that material on that model. Specialized respond to consumer's buying preferences even though they were counter to the carbon bikes, carbon bikes in which bike brands want you to buy. See how that works in reverse?

And of course bike companies want you to buy what the majority of consumers are also buying. But that's not to say rim brake wants won't be met, they just won't on some models/brands. Aluminum survives, rim brakes will too. Because they both work. Now, how much demand there will be and how many models will retain them is an open and ongoing question.

For me the Allez Sprint Disc frame is intriguing, it's $1,500 and the cool colored Sagan edition is $1,750. These will go on sale at some point and if they dropped down far enough IMO they would make a killer crit project that would look awesome too.