Help with LOOK 585 headset

[mastaliu]

Hi All,

I have a LOOK 585 2009-2010. The issue is that I cannot get the headset tight without any play. So it's either too tight and the fork doesn't move well, or it's loose with play. I have read what I can find from other forums on the LOOK 585 headset and I am still stuck. Visits to several LBSs have surprisingly not yielded any answers. I have to confess that this is my first "modern" bike with this integrated headset, so it is possible that I'm missing something very basic.

The photo shows all the parts in order as I put them together and the fork. It feels as if the fork crown rubs up against the bottom of the head tube, as if I need a longer bearing or am I missing a part on the bottom part of the headset?

Photos: fork, (1) lower bearing, (2) upper bearing, (3) split tapered bushing, (4) 4 microspacers, (5) cap, (6) 3 spacers/ 15mm, (7) stem!, (8) spacer/ 5mm, (9) stem cap, plus I have a Specialized compression plug in the steerer.

A note on the bearings: They are 41mm OD, with 36x45 degree bearing standard and are in good shape.

Help me so I can build this thing up and ride! Thank you.

[weisan]

er...where's your crown race that is supposed to be on the fork?

[Hindmost]

Starting at the bottom, with the bottom bearing and fork in place and turning by hand does the fork interfere with the head tube? If not, with the top bearing, cone, washers and top cap in place (while pressing the assembly together by hand) does the top cap interfere with the head tube?

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by weisan

er...where's your crown race that is supposed to be on the fork?

That was my first reaction, but from doing some research and looking at the LOOK manual, it seems as if the crown race is not used.

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by Hindmost

Starting at the bottom, with the bottom bearing and fork in place and turning by hand does the fork interfere with the head tube? If not, with the top bearing, cone, washers and top cap in place (while pressing the assembly together by hand) does the top cap interfere with the head tube?

Yes, this is what seems to be happening - the fork rubs with the headtube when the bottom bearing is in place.

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by mastaliu

Yes, this is what seems to be happening - the fork rubs with the headtube when the bottom bearing is in place.

Looking at this again carefully (it's dark here in the East), it does appear that the top cap is the one interfering with the headtube. Do I just need more of these microspacers?? Thanks Hindmost.

[Hindmost]

Originally Posted by mastaliu

Looking at this again carefully (it's dark here in the East), it does appear that the top cap is the one interfering with the headtube. Do I just need more of these microspacers?? Thanks Hindmost.

That's what I am thinking.

If you don't have more micro spacers, try using a thin headset spacer instead of the micro spacers to assemble and adjust preload just to see if it works. Then get the micro spacers.

[paredown]

I see only one of the split thrust rings that go inside the head tube--from my understanding there should be a top and bottom one.

If both are there, then the microspacer stack is the place to adjust.

It's also possible that there is sufficient wear to the bearings so that when the preload is set, you are getting binding.

Here's a thread over on RBR that I read while I was trying to figure mine out that has a good description of how to set up...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/com...on-206474.html

[saab2000]

Micro spacers above the to bearing (actually above the ring) and beneath the top cover help. Try this, as others have mentioned. I have owned a bunch of 585s and the headset is great when it works but can have this issue.

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by paredown

I see only one of the split thrust rings that go inside the head tube--from my understanding there should be a top and bottom one.

If both are there, then the microspacer stack is the place to adjust.

It's also possible that there is sufficient wear to the bearings so that when the preload is set, you are getting binding.

Here's a thread over on RBR that I read while I was trying to figure mine out that has a good description of how to set up...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/com...on-206474.html

I notice this diagram as well which is for other LOOK models - the thrust rings seem to be part of the headtube in the 585, possibly replaceable, but not part of the headset components. I will have to try this with new bearings to see if the ones I have are the issue.

[paredown]

Originally Posted by mastaliu

I notice this diagram as well which is for other LOOK models - the thrust rings seem to be part of the headtube in the 585, possibly replaceable, but not part of the headset components. I will have to try this with new bearings to see if the ones I have are the issue.

You may be right--I saw the one ring with the split and assumed it was a thrust ring. But worth taking a look up inside, since it took me forever to figure mine out--and there is not much information out there that is reliable.

The problem is that the retail replacement Look headset that fits my 585 does NOT include the thrust washers. Aftermarket headsets are no longer available that include them either. My own thread discussing me figuring this out for my own 585 is also on RBR. While there are in fact molded in metal reinforcements that the thrust washers butt against, you still need the top and bottom thrust washers as shown at least for my generation 585.

I had to order the thrust washers directly from Hawley because they are NOT a retail item, nor could I source a simple replacement. The thread gives contact details for the guy at Hawley who answered my questions:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/loo...-a-355647.html

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by paredown

You may be right--I saw the one ring with the split and assumed it was a thrust ring. But worth taking a look up inside, since it took me forever to figure mine out--and there is not much information out there that is reliable.

The problem is that the retail replacement Look headset that fits my 585 does NOT include the thrust washers. Aftermarket headsets are no longer available that include them either. My own thread discussing me figuring this out for my own 585 is also on RBR. While there are in fact molded in metal reinforcements that the thrust washers butt against, you still need the top and bottom thrust washers as shown at least for my generation 585.

I had to order the thrust washers directly from Hawley because they are NOT a retail item, nor could I source a simple replacement. The thread gives contact details for the guy at Hawley who answered my questions:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/loo...-a-355647.html

Thanks, I read through the link and had a look in the frame. All that is there are some metal races that seem somewhat permanently fixed inside of the headtube - are the thrust washers easily removed? Also, in the same LOOK manual, there is a diagram (below) that shows a set up without these thrust washers? Did you order direct through Hawley? Thank you!

[paredown]

My friend BikerJulio posted a picture in that thread that shows his (I did not take a picture of mine)--and I've attached it in case you can't see the pictures on that RBR thread.

So there are two pieces--first the embedded/bonded piece--which on mine was like Julio's and looked just like your picture--permanently fastened (I actually had to touch it a little with Emery to convince myself it was metal). Like you, I didn't know if that was all I needed. He kindly took his apart to show me all the parts, and his headtube with the bonded ring n the picture looks the same as yours. But he also had the thrust washers, so that was confirmation that I needed those as well.

And yes, the split thrust rings to come out fairly easily--about like a split crown race. Park tool picture from here:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...dset-standards

And yes--I had to order directly from Hawley--and if I remember correctly, he was able to confirm by serial number that I needed the thrust washers, so it is probably worth a call to confirm. In my case, I received the 585 stripped and had never installed an integrated headset before, so it took the call directly to the reps (and the help from Julio) to get sorted. (I'm not sure what year my 585 is , but you can see it on this Paceline thread:
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=210326 )

The real PITA is that the replacement Look 585 headset does not include the thrust washers--I guess because it is not really a wear item.

[mastaliu]

Originally Posted by paredown

My friend BikerJulio posted a picture in that thread that shows his (I did not take a picture of mine)--and I've attached it in case you can't see the pictures on that RBR thread.

So there are two pieces--first the embedded/bonded piece--which on mine was like Julio's--permanently fastened (I actually had to touch it a little with Emery to convince myself it was metal). Like you, I didn't know if that was all I needed. He kindly took his apart to show me all the parts, and his headtube with the bonded ring n the picture looks the same as yours.

And yes, the split thrust rings to come out fairly easily--about like a split crown race. Park tool picture from here:
https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...dset-standards

And yes--I had to order directly from Hawley--and if I remember correctly, he was able to confirm by serial number that I needed the thrust washers, so it is probably worth a call to confirm. In my case, I received the 585 stripped and had never installed an integrated headset before, so it took the call directly to the reps (and the help from Julio) to get sorted.

The real PITA is that the replacement Look 585 headset does not include the thrust washers--I guess because it is not really a wear item.

Yes, this must be the problem! Ok, I hope I can find these washers. I will get in touch with Hawley and see if I can source. If anyone else has ideas where to get these please let me know! Thanks so much for the help.

[saab2000]

I have seen 585s on eBay without the proper headset and I steer clear immediately. I am not sure why anyone would separate the frame and fork from the headset but it happens.

The FSA Orbit is the right headset I believe but there may be sub-models of this headset and it may or may not include all the washers you need.

Best thing would be to find a trashed 585 or 595 and get all the headset pieces.