Can we talk XCr?

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by PaMtbRider

Let me be clear that all of the above is way beyond the point of diminishing returns. If we all made the practical choice on what bike to ride this forum probably wouldn't exist. Luckily we have builders providing us choices on how to best spend our children's inheritance.

This statement makes way too much sense.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Your example seems to imply that there is a big difference between 953 and XCR - not that the builder makes a difference.

The builder in so far as s/he determines the tube shape wall diameter overall size tube placement etc.

I am not referring to builder from a weld fabrication standpoint

[capt_velo]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Your example seems to imply that there is a big difference between 953 and XCR - not that the builder makes a difference.

The biggest difference is that 953 is no longer being offered by Reynolds.

https://www.reynoldstechnology.biz/m...s/s-953-steel/

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

The builder in so far as s/he determines the tube shape wall diameter overall size tube placement etc.

I am not referring to builder from a weld fabrication standpoint

All I am saying is that your post was illogical.

You stated that a builder has a bigger difference and subsequently highlighted how two different bikes, with two different materials, rode differently.

With two variables, you can't assume one played a greater role than another.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by fignon's barber

This statement makes way too much sense.

Yeah, the guy has a Bishop and wants a high end custom made XCR bike. Like asking a bunch of people at a monster truck rally that "I am sleeping with this bikini model, what other bikini model can I sleep with."

[Jimbo251]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Yeah, the guy has a Bishop and wants a high end custom made XCR bike. Like asking a bunch of people at a monster truck rally that "I am sleeping with this bikini model, what other bikini model can I sleep with."

Well, all I can say to that is this forum is made up of hundreds upon hundreds of people who have a stable of multiple bikes.
How many bikes does Angry have? or Coffee Rider? (I use them as an example cuz they're my size) Just because I have a Bishop doesn't lock me down to never have another bike.
Again, I had a tig'd XCr that Carl Strong built me and i loved it. I would go straight to him to build me another, but again, he won't. I've already asked him. Carl is focused on Pursuit and not building metal bikes anymore.

I was just curious, about potential builders that the forum might suggest that I hadn't thought of or considered? May or may not happen, but worth a thread me thinks.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by Jimbo251

I was just curious, about potential builders that the forum might suggest that I hadn't thought of or considered? May or may not happen, but worth a thread me thinks.

Definitely worth a thread, ignore the haters

[EB]

When XCr or 953 come up, my question is - why that, and not titanium? Is it just the potential for using skinnier tubing? The potential for brazing and/or lugs instead of TIG?

It seems like those are the primary differences - and they are big ones, aesthetically! But it seems like if you're going for an oversized tubing TIG frame - a la the Cinelli XCr - I can't see any reason not to go with Ti instead. It would probably be cheaper, too.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by EB

When XCr or 953 come up, my question is - why that, and not titanium? Is it just the potential for using skinnier tubing? The potential for brazing and/or lugs instead of TIG?

It seems like those are the primary differences - and they are big ones, aesthetically! But it seems like if you're going for an oversized tubing TIG frame - a la the Cinelli XCr - I can't see any reason not to go with Ti instead. It would probably be cheaper, too.

Practically, you're probably right, but think of what a great conversation starter "cool titanium bike." -"ACTUALLY, it's stainless" would be.

[Jimbo251]

Originally Posted by EB

When XCr or 953 come up, my question is - why that, and not titanium? Is it just the potential for using skinnier tubing? The potential for brazing and/or lugs instead of TIG?

It seems like those are the primary differences - and they are big ones, aesthetically! But it seems like if you're going for an oversized tubing TIG frame - a la the Cinelli XCr - I can't see any reason not to go with Ti instead. It would probably be cheaper, too.

I have had Ti bikes, including several Moots. For me (and subjective of course) steel is my medium for bike frames. I find that steel rides and performs for me better than any other material. I am a steel guy.
XCr is the pinnacle of steel tubes, and I preferred the XCr over Ti bikes that I had.

It's a want thing, there's no rational behind the why not Ti debate or other material. I would prefer a custom geo frame over a stock size one but the Cinelli is very nice.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by EB

When XCr or 953 come up, my question is - why that, and not titanium? Is it just the potential for using skinnier tubing? The potential for brazing and/or lugs instead of TIG?

It seems like those are the primary differences - and they are big ones, aesthetically! But it seems like if you're going for an oversized tubing TIG frame - a la the Cinelli XCr - I can't see any reason not to go with Ti instead. It would probably be cheaper, too.

Titanium has a much different feel than steel. I have a XCR gravel bike and am having a similar one made in Ti by the same builder. Having ridden the Ti version, the ride is very different. Neither one is "better" or "worse" just different. And the Ti is more expensive!

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Jimbo251

I have had Ti bikes, including several Moots. For me (and subjective of course) steel is my medium for bike frames. I find that steel rides and performs for me better than any other material. I am a steel guy.
XCr is the pinnacle of steel tubes, and I preferred the XCr over Ti bikes that I had.

It's a want thing, there's no rational behind the why not Ti debate or other material. I would prefer a custom geo frame over a stock size one but the Cinelli is very nice.

I'm definitely on board with your desire here. It's fun to collect different bikes with different attributes, and many of my own desires are not just for the most practical or cost effective bike.

The first person I'd contact would be Carl at Metal Guru/Viscious Cycles. He builds frames and sells XCr tubes, so I think he could probably either build you a great bike, or put you in touch with some of the framebuilders he's been selling XCr tubes to.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Jimbo251

Well, all I can say to that is this forum is made up of hundreds upon hundreds of people who have a stable of multiple bikes.
How many bikes does Angry have? or Coffee Rider? (I use them as an example cuz they're my size) Just because I have a Bishop doesn't lock me down to never have another bike.
Again, I had a tig'd XCr that Carl Strong built me and i loved it. I would go straight to him to build me another, but again, he won't. I've already asked him. Carl is focused on Pursuit and not building metal bikes anymore.

I was just curious, about potential builders that the forum might suggest that I hadn't thought of or considered? May or may not happen, but worth a thread me thinks.

Sorry, but did not mean to sound like a hater.

Was just trying to make a comment on what PaMtbRider and Fignon said. Sometimes we want something because we want it - even if it is irrational! Nothing wrong with that! And I am probably in that camp!

And I would stay away from Cinelli - not a good group.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

All I am saying is that your post was illogical.

You stated that a builder has a bigger difference and subsequently highlighted how two different bikes, with two different materials, rode differently.

With two variables, you can't assume one played a greater role than another.

Fair point.
Abstracted, you would think that for stock geo, both IF and Peg know how to build the best frame they can using the material chosen.

It was shocking to me how ordinary the SSR 953 rode, and how much the Respo XcR reflects the general forum comments about the Respo ride.

[stefthehat]

Not ‘taking sides’ ,nor a critique of titanium [I have one]but I always remember the comment from Jason Rourke in Robert Penns book ‘it’s about the bike’ where he says if stainless had come along early ‘90’s[in the form we are talking about here] titanium wouldn’t of gained any traction and it would of completely kept steel as a ‘relevant’ option