For comment: "Why It's Impossible For Steel Frames To Be More Comfortable..."

RWL2222 · #1 07-12-2020, 05:02 PM

One thing that struck me on returning to cycling was how much old truisms, supposedly rooted in engineering, have been debunked--skinny wheels, 'anatomic' components, clipless pedals, etc. It makes me wonder what else that is commonly assumed now by enthusiasts but may be not true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb4ktAbmr_4 (corrected link)

The title aside, this video (<10minutes) offers up some challenge data on the sources of bike flex and comfort. This is related to, but separate from a post today here on spun weight, which this vid gives some possible insight on as well.

What say others here with deep expertise?

cgolvin · #2 07-12-2020, 05:16 PM

Typo in the link, should be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb4ktAbmr_4

RWL2222 · #3 07-12-2020, 05:20 PM

Thank you. Corrected now
Not sure how that happened.

bostondrunk · #4 07-12-2020, 05:20 PM

Didn't watch the video, but I think the days have gone by when folks here on the forum were convinced their carbon seat post was making their ride more comfortable.....(of course their bikes were also still 'stiff yet compliant').

Bike comfort is position, and tire width and pressure. Not frame material.

NHAero · #5 07-12-2020, 05:26 PM

We measured this with less sophisticated instruments (weights, and dial indicators) in the MIT Aluminum Bike Frame project in 1974. Nothing new here. Vertically, if you isolate the frame, it's really stiff, especially the rear triangle, which with threwheel axle is a tetrahedron.

ultraman6970 · #6 07-12-2020, 05:37 PM

Well... just to start you have look at geometries, some geometries are more comfortable than other ones. But if all the frames are exactly the same geometry and you change the material some materials are stiffer than other ones.

You can have a softer seatpost, and softer wheels, actually some rims are softer than other ones, same with tires. So that thing about whats more comfortable it really depends of geometry and what do you have installed in the frame you know.

The other thing is that surprise me that nobody wants to admit that marketing had been feeding us BS for a very long time, and many just bought it big time.

There's an article about same bike geometry but different materials.

ps: tubes in the frame construction can make a big difference aswell.

colker · #7 07-12-2020, 05:47 PM

The most important component for comfort is paint. Yellow bikes are significantly more comfortable.. if you are fit and have been riding a lot.

cinema · #8 07-12-2020, 05:53 PM

Thanks for the link. I thought the video was extremely well scripted and and explained. It confirmed a lot about what I've noticed over the years, one thing that changed a lot for me was moving from thin lightweight bar tape to thicker cork tape. it's the little things that seem obvious which make the ride a lot better. Thought the whole time it was the stiff carbon fork that was beating me up but the tape changed my tune.

Elefantino · #9 07-12-2020, 05:54 PM

Steel planes.

bicycletricycle · #10 07-12-2020, 06:02 PM

that guy produces some pretty good content. One thing he doesn't cover is the consequences of the different kind of "suspension" he covers. Vertical frame flex, tire distortion and seat post flex all feel different and have different effects other than just smoothing out bumps.

It is true that trying to get ride comfort from frame flex is the hardest way to do it. However, if you are limited to skinny tires and racing style frames than pursuing improved ride quality through frame design isn't a bad idea. It just turns out that the differences have been exaggerated.

colker · #11 07-12-2020, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

that guy produces some pretty good content. One thing he doesn't cover is the consequences of the different kind of "suspension" he covers. Vertical frame flex, tire distortion and seat post flex all feel different and have different effects other than just smoothing out bumps.

It is true that trying to get ride comfort from frame flex is the hardest way to do it. However, if you are limited to skinny tires and racing style frames than pursuing improved ride quality through frame design isn't a bad idea. It just turns out that the differences have been exaggerated.

There is more to comfort than vertical compliance.

reuben · #12 07-12-2020, 05:56 PM

I pump up my tires at 7,000 - 10,000 feet. The lighter air in the tires makes me significantly faster when I ride down.

vespasianus · #13 07-12-2020, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reuben

I pump up my tires at 7,000 - 10,000 feet. The lighter air in the tires makes me significantly faster when I ride down.

I actually use hot air in my tires. Feels like I am floating. On my mountain bike when I hit a jump, I fly like that guy in ET.

Blown Reek · #14 07-12-2020, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker

The most important component for comfort is paint.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colker

Yellow bikes are significantly more comfortable.

Not this.

Peter P. · #15 07-13-2020, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostondrunk

Didn't watch the video, but I think the days have gone by when folks here on the forum were convinced their carbon seat post was making their ride more comfortable.....(of course their bikes were also still 'stiff yet compliant').

Bike comfort is position, and tire width and pressure. Not frame material.

Exactly. The double diamond frame by its design can't flex in a vertical plane.

And for decades people used steel forks without complaint that they were too harsh. They absorbed bumps as best as they could without being wimpy.

Like bostondrunk said; rider position, tire width, and pressure a contribute to ride comfort.