Impressions of Moots Vamoots?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by SlackMan

A couple of people have already mentioned the possibility of a custom Ti frame for even less money than a stock Moots. DeSalvo is another custom Ti that offers custom for less than a stock Moots. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

See above plus..35 years of experience, refined product, big dealer network to actually ride one...

[rnhood]

I've always considered Moots the defining benchmark in a Ti bike. I would get it then buy a custom if you ever feel the need. But I doubt a custom will buy a better bike. After all, if you watch the way Moots builds them they are custom for all practical purposes. And the weld quality is just superb, road, mtg, cross and anything in between. Nothing is a step down in their line.

[Idris Icabod]

Originally Posted by SlackMan

A couple of people have already mentioned the possibility of a custom Ti frame for even less money than a stock Moots. DeSalvo is another custom Ti that offers custom for less than a stock Moots. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

My friend has a Desalvo, Mike does build an amazing frame. One advantage of a Moots is the short lead time, I had mine in a week. My friend waited the best part of 9 months for his. I updated this post because I thought it was unfair, the longer than usual time was due to numerous factors, few of De Salvo's making. Apparantly sending it off for paint was the longest wait which if you wanted a painted Moots would also add to the wait time equally.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by christian

I'd guess the average resale value of a custom Ti bike is <40% of MSRP. The resale of stock Vamootses seems to be 60% of MSRP. That's a fair bit of scratch. (And, since I buy mostly used, why I've never had a chance to own one.)

You should Christian! Im not finding any orange 57s anyways

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by christian

I'd guess the average resale value of a custom Ti bike is <40% of MSRP. The resale of stock Vamootses seems to be 60% of MSRP. That's a fair bit of scratch. (And, since I buy mostly used, why I've never had a chance to own one.)

I keep a pretty regular eye out on ebay for these things, and I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up. Interestingly, Moots is the only company whose bikes I have always bought new (with the exception of a YBB SL for my wife*).

*Oh, and the Psychlo-X YYB disc, which is a total experiment.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

I keep a pretty regular eye out on ebay for these things, and I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up. Interestingly, Moots is the only company whose bikes I have always bought new (with the exception of a YBB SL for my wife).

I spent almost a year searching for a 59 on ebay and nothing.
So Moots are the only bikes i bought new aswell. I did buy a 57.5 used to find out it was too small before i cave in tho.

[1centaur]

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

[christian]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up.

When you do, I trust you'll call my cell phone or send me a text message as soon as humanly possible. Or do the neighborly thing and just buy it for me and let me know how much I owe you via Paypal?

[GT2R]

Originally Posted by 1centaur

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

Interesting that you say this. I have a semi-custom Compact SL that I have ridden exclusively for 7yrs. I am very satisfied with my Moots. Tomorrow, my new to me Look 585 f/f/hs arrive and the decision making begins on building it up. I am really interested and pretty excited to compare.

I originally built my bike with an Easton fork but then bought a Moots fork which looks a lot like an Alpha-Q.

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by 1centaur

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

Same here. May be because we both have Parlees, which I consider a terrific example of a carbon bike.

[jpw]

does moots drill the down tube for electronic cable routing?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jpw

does moots drill the down tube for electronic cable routing?

Yes, been doing EPS and di2 plumbing for a while and also now for the EPS internal battery. Hole right between the DT bottle bosses for external battery if ya want it there, which I recommend. Plus the one up closer to the head tube for the interface wire. Never had an issue.

As for preference for one material or another, completely personal. I owned carbon, sold carbon and similar to 1centaur, the reason I'll never own a carbon frame. Not impressed by any of them, even at wholesale or EP.

[happycampyer]

To 1Centaur and Veloduffer, I don't disagree with you—I have several carbon bikes that overall I like better than the Vamoots (Crumpton SL, Cyfac Gothica, MeiVici SE), but they also cost a lot more than a Vamoots. If you're looking for a ti frame that has the "snap" of a Z1 or Z3 and is relatively light (i.e., with the right wheels can be built up under 15lbs), a Spectrum or RSL or other frame with a similar design philosophy (butted, oversized tubes, more than likely BB30 or PF BB30 bottom bracket, etc.) would be better candidates than the Vamoots. These frames also cost more than a Vamoots, but generally still less than many high-end carbon bikes.

To jpw, yes, Moots drills frames for internal routing of Di2/EPS—in fact, when Di2 was first introduced, I believe Shimano used a Moots as a display bike at shows.

[veloduffer]

I should qualify my answer a bit. My preference is entirely personal, like wine and women! My point was that the same enthusiasm shared by many is not completely universal. If my Moots were my only bike, I'd be very happy. The differences are subtle and might not be perceived by others, and might be just notions in my head!

If you can, try before you buy.

[bironi]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

That, and there's no paint option. Some don't care for the industrial look of bare titanium.

I've had a Vamoots for about 6 years. Still like the ride. I had mine sent to Spectrum Powder works when i placed my order. It only sports a head badge which I like. Ouzo Pro fork. Thompson post.