Sagan on Discs Except for the Roubaix Stage

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

You're confusing technological innovation with market innovation. Nothing wrong with either.

You're confusing consumer choice with market hype and lack the ability to accept that people will like things that you don't.

Just as people chose STI and clipless so are some now choosing disc.

To peg your choice as technological innovation, well, the guy on the bone shaker thinks you just fell for the hype of marketing.

[m4rk540]

Burnette, are you trolling?

Ok, one last time...going from friction to STI or from toe clips to clipless involves changing behavior, for better or worse. And hence the debate during those paradigm shifts. Getting consumers to switch from rim to disc only involves choosing a new model not changing how you ride. Therefore, the challenge for the bike companies is both more straightforward/linear and more logistically interesting in terms of marketing. "Newer but the same but better. Disc brakes!"

[ergott]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Getting consumers to switch from rim to disc only involves choosing a new model not changing how you ride.

I'll disagree with this. Disc opened up bikes with different wheel size choices and a significantly different braking behavior on my part. My technical descending times agree. It doesn't have to be either/or. You can like both.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Burnette, are you trolling?

Ok, one last time...going from friction to STI or from toe clips to clipless involves changing behavior, for better or worse. And hence the debate during those paradigm shifts. Getting consumers to switch from rim to disc only involves choosing a new model not changing how you ride. Therefore, the challenge for the bike companies is both more straightforward/linear and more logistically interesting in terms of marketing. "Newer but the same but better. Disc brakes!"

You're wrong in separating the disc brakes, STI and clipless by degree of knowledge needed to use them. It's irrelevant to their impact . It doesn't have to have a learning curve to be valid useful and preferred by some.

So no, your equations are off.

[m4rk540]

Ergott, I meant that there's no learning curve. You can walk in the bike shop and ride off without any instruction or practice. In other words, it's not a scary technology for the average consumer. Again, I'm talking about the industry in general not specialists or connoisseurs.

And Burnette, all my points have been directed at Saab who equated the "backlash" against disc brakes to the backlash against STI and clipless; it's not the same dynamic.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Ergott, I meant that there's no learning curve. You can walk in the bike shop and ride off without any instruction or practice. In other words, it's not a scary technology for the average consumer. Again, I'm talking about the industry in general not specialists or connoisseurs.

And Burnette, all my points have been directed at Saab who equated the "backlash" against disc brakes to the backlash against STI and clipless; it's not the same dynamic.

I’m enjoying it. Ride what you like. I know I do so. FWIW, I currently have just one disc brake bike. And it’s mechanical. I’m way behind the times.

Whatever inspires you to ride a bike is good. Honest.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by ergott

I'll disagree with this. Disc opened up bikes with different wheel size choices and a significantly different braking behavior on my part. My technical descending times agree. It doesn't have to be either/or. You can like both.

I don't know why some curmudgeons can't fathom that some people actually like disc brakes?

A co-worker who lives in the NC mountains bought a Pinarello F8. He had to take his carbon wheels off. Steep grades equal steep descents, he had to put aluminum rims on that bike.

He told me that he rode a friends Cannondale that had disc brakes. Deeper into the turns, consistent braking, he's sold. Somebody is going to get a deal on a F8 somewhere down the road.

I mean, if we can accept people clutching onto DT shifters, why can't some get that some consumers prefer discs?

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by m4rk540

Ergott, I meant that there's no learning curve. You can walk in the bike shop and ride off without any instruction or practice. In other words, it's not a scary technology for the average consumer. Again, I'm talking about the industry in general not specialists or connoisseurs.

And Burnette, all my points have been directed at Saab who equated the "backlash" against disc brakes to the backlash against STI and clipless; it's not the same dynamic.

Oh but it is, the same wrong headed "marketing hype" argument was made against STI and clipless.

Again, it's doesn't have to be difficult to use to be innovative and preferable.

[93KgBike]

The market is not pushing bike consumers from one technology to another; the market is pushing bike consumers from paying cash for the 'top-o-the-line' to signing a financing contract for it.

Technology advances here and there, and the market figures out the multiple in retail price us rubes will pay for them adopting it.

Whether it works, or is better, or necessary is for us plebes to wrangle over.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

The market is not pushing bike consumers from one technology to another; the market is pushing bike consumers from paying cash for the 'top-o-the-line' to signing a financing contract for it.

Technology advances here and there, and the market figures out the multiple in retail price us rubes will pay for them adopting it.

Whether it works, or is better, or necessary is for us plebes to wrangle over.

Halo bikes are just that, top if the line to draw attention to the rest of the line. The majority of bikes sold aren't five figure dentist grade bikes that people are financing.

To the contrary, the rise of internet sales price is bringing erosion that will continue to push prices down.

Again, our market is so saturated with over supply at every price point that sales/deals are happening even before seasons end. There is an awful lot of used bikes in classifieds too. It is and has been a buyers market for bicycles. Be patient, search and wait for the deals.

[R3awak3n]

I really would love to know though, how many of the nay sayers have actually ridden a disc brake bike. And I don't mean none of the spyre bs bike, I am talking a modern road disc brake bike with road hydraulic.

I don't think discs are necessary at all on a road bike and they look goofy for sure but on the mountains give me a disc bike any day, it is just better on the descent.... specially if you have carbon wheels.

[Bostic]

I’m visiting Colorado on vacation. Two days ago at top of Mt. Evans. Today top of Pikes Peak. Most of the bikes I saw were rim brakes. I personally would want to descend these on a disc brake bike. Mainly for the cars on the road.

[ChristianWong]

Here's a question I haven't seen discussed in length:

When will Shimano/SRAM/Campy stop producing groupsets that are mechanical (for braking, at least)? Are the rim-brake devotees going to move to hydro-rim calipers? Seems that is a bigger worry than availability of frames.

Sorry to stoke the fire.

[Lionel]

Originally Posted by Burnette

A co-worker who lives in the NC mountains bought a Pinarello F8. He had to take his carbon wheels off. Steep grades equal steep descents, he had to put aluminum rims on that bike.

What a load of crap !

[Fivethumbs]

No, I heard he really does have a co-worker.