Armstrong on doping past: 'I wouldn't change a thing'

[54ny77]

if you're right about lemond being a doper, that would be quite the story.

however, you're conveniently leaving out the fact that he was beating top domestic pros as a young teenager, and world class by the time he was in his late teens. and he stayed there for a couple of decades, consistently, with incremental improvements and a full racing schedule (i.e., pre-specialization era). he got what, 3rd on his first tour de france attempt at age 23? definitely a once-in-a-generation rider with extraordinary abilities. i'd be pissed too if i knew what i was capable of and had the rug pulled out from under me.

compare that to the peloton's fly-by-night-donkey-turned-tour contenders.

also, his messaging has been consistent and never wrong. i'll take a wild guess he's a lot closer to the sport than folks like you or i and have far more intimate knowledge of what really goes on.

a good acquaintance, who was once at the top of the domestic scene and is still pretty dialed into things, has a couple of boys, one of whom could easily have been top domestic as well as international caliber. he refused to let him participate in the sport, due to the doping demands that are placed upon young talent. it's just not worth it. that's saying something right there.

[QUOTE=CunegoFan;2547113] deleted

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by harlond

Yes, right next to the new and unique perspectives on Armstrong.

Originally Posted by pbarry

People can change.

Of course they can, of course they can!

But, type-A narcissistic jerks from Plano, Texas with enormous Jesus complexes can't really whine themselves into Jesus...they might change a couple of spots but at the end of the fawning interviews and media deals they're pretty much still just type-A narcissistic jerks from Plano, Texas with enormous Jesus complexes....

[oldpotatoe]

a good acquaintance, who was once at the top of the domestic scene and is still pretty dialed into things, has a couple of boys, one of whom could easily have been top domestic as well as international caliber. he refused to let him participate in the sport, due to the doping demands that are placed upon young talent. it's just not worth it. that's saying something right there.

It's a good thing you didn't mention which sport because EVERY professional sport(and lots of non professional ones), EVERY ONE OF THEM, have a dope problem. The teams, big boys and small boys and girls all have MDs, they know the doping rules inside out, they know what's flatly illegal in any amount and what is OK, and what amount. They know the timing, the techniques, the methods..inside out and far better than the 'testers'...

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

It's a good thing you didn't mention which sport because EVERY professional sport(and lots of non professional ones), EVERY ONE OF THEM, have a dope problem.

Yes - I agree. Curt Schilling comes immediately to mind!

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

Of course they can, of course they can!

But, type-A narcissistic jerks from Plano, Texas with enormous Jesus complexes can't really whine themselves into Jesus...they might change a couple of spots but at the end of the fawning interviews and media deals they're pretty much still just type-A narcissistic jerks from Plano, Texas with enormous Jesus complexes....

Jesus

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

if you're right about lemond being a doper, that would be quite the story.

however, you're conveniently leaving out the fact that he was beating top domestic pros as a young teenager, and world class by the time he was in his late teens. and he stayed there for a couple of decades, consistently, with incremental improvements and a full racing schedule (i.e., pre-specialization era). he got what, 3rd on his first tour de france attempt at age 23? definitely a once-in-a-generation rider with extraordinary abilities. i'd be pissed too if i knew what i was capable of and had the rug pulled out from under me.

Didn't Lemond win the TDF after his hunting accident and win with gunshot pellets in the lining of his heart and liver?
Greatest comeback, or...?
Also, those B-12 shots he took were very suspicious to me.

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Didn't Lemond win the TDF after his hunting accident and win with gunshot pellets in the lining of his heart and liver?
Greatest comeback, or...?
Also, those B-12 shots he took were very suspicious to me.

Jesus

[Tony T]

Of course Greg has plausible deniability regarding those "B-12" shots.

[woodworker]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Of course Greg has plausible deniability regarding those "B-12" shots.

...so now the argument is that, although he was a once in a generation talent before EPO was available based upon his actual history--took a podium in the world's hardest bike race in his first three attempts--again, before EPO was available, somehow LeMond's post gunshot performance was fueled by drugs. What evidence do you have as to any of this? Are you able to address the following points:

(1) whether, and if so, to what extent, his injuries impacted his short term ability to compete in bicycle racing at the elite level (i.e. medical information as to the effect on his respiratory and related systems);

(2) any changes in his level of performance pre- vs. post-injury, e.g. times, speeds, etc.;

(3) any evidence that he actually took some performance enhancing drugs (as with Armstrong--the sworn statements of teammates, or his own statements).

I'm just curious: do you have any actual evidence--medical, empirical, documentary or testimonial--to support your conclusions?

You really should have some evidence to support your assertions; and I'm not sure I understand why in each discussion of Armstrong's confessed doping activities, those defending him think that the best defense is to argue that LeMond did it too.

Based upon absolutely nothing.

Just appalling.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Of course Greg has plausible deniability regarding those "B-12" shots.

Mary and Joseph?

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by dino suegiù

mary and joseph?

lol

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by woodworker

...so now the argument is that, although he was a once in a generation talent before EPO was available based upon his actual history--took a podium in the world's hardest bike race in his first three attempts--again, before EPO was available, somehow LeMond's post gunshot performance was fueled by drugs. What evidence do you have as to any of this? Are you able to address the following points:

(1) whether, and if so, to what extent, his injuries impacted his short term ability to compete in bicycle racing at the elite level (i.e. medical information as to the effect on his respiratory and related systems);

(2) any changes in his level of performance pre- vs. post-injury, e.g. times, speeds, etc.;

(3) any evidence that he actually took some performance enhancing drugs (as with Armstrong--the sworn statements of teammates, or his own statements).

I'm just curious: do you have any actual evidence--medical, empirical, documentary or testimonial--to support your conclusions?

You really should have some evidence to support your assertions; and I'm not sure I understand why in each discussion of Armstrong's confessed doping activities, those defending him think that the best defense is to argue that LeMond did it too.

Based upon absolutely nothing.

Just appalling.

Lemond needed no evidence when he first made his allegations, and he was eventually proven right. Someday so may I

[Alaska Mike]

LeMond’s contemporaries have pretty much said that Greg was one guy who was clean. Lance offered money to dig up dirt on him, and had no takers. Yet, the “Greg doped” narrative endures. It doesn’t necessarily need to be true if you repeat it often and loudly.

Again, professional cycling has enough issues without the toxicity Lance brings.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by charliedid

lol

[woodworker]

Originally Posted by Tony T

Lemond needed no evidence when he first made his allegations, and he was eventually proven right. Someday so may I

Ok. Good luck with that.

Oh, and btw, it's the 30th anniversary of LeMond's comeback win in the '89 TDF. Here's a link for your reading pleasure:

https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-fr...g-lemond-1989/

Enjoy!