Rivendell saved for now...

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

" I have two jobs at Rivendell. In order of importance to ME, they are:

Keep good people employed. This has changed from my initial “support a family.”
“Create” useful bikes and bike stuff that wouldn’t be made if we weren’t here.


The two are linked, I think. I don’t think we could survive if we went all disc-brake carbon gravel bikes, or made trail bikes of the kind I see all over the hills I ride in. What’s the formula there? Matte black, slash of orange or chartreuse, six-inches of travel, Fox rear shocks, disc brakes, dropper post, click pedals, micro-brew habit. Plus, as the song went, I’d rather drive a truck." - from their blog thing


dude is clueless. people don't want the bikes he is selling... and that is clear because they keep asking for money. what he also does not get is that he doesnt have to make carbon bikes or half the crap he is talking. Take a look at crust... or the likes... make bikes that are riv inspired but change em up a bit. What is funny is that for a while there was this hole in the industry... everyone wanted something like the elephant NFE... and no one was making it, this went for a good year or 2. You had rawland (which is also a terrible company and failed miserably at making bikes for those 2 years, promising people stuff, ect) and you had elephant (great guys but just could not make enough bikes and ended up with a huge queue)... thats it... I can not believe someone did not come in and take the demand and make bikes people wanted. well crust kind of did, endpoint did.. a bit later but that happened.

now there is still some demand for racks, like the haulin colin style rack... still no one making them... there is opportunity and no one is taking it. A company like rivendell that actually has contacts to make these things and people to sell em to.

And now we are here.... sorry for the ramble but this is kinda ridiculous.

His response proves it's all Dogma at this point. Dude should have started a magazine instead of a bike company, or whatever it is he started.

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by charliedid

His response proves it's all Dogma at this point. Dude should have started a magazine instead of a bike company, or whatever it is he started.

What he started was a religious cult. Nobody should be surprised when from time to time he passes the collection plate.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

" I don’t think we could survive if we went all disc-brake carbon gravel bikes, or made trail bikes of the kind I see all over the hills I ride in. What’s the formula there? Matte black, slash of orange or chartreuse, six-inches of travel, Fox rear shocks, disc brakes, dropper post, click pedals, micro-brew habit. Plus, as the song went, I’d rather drive a truck." - from their blog thing

yes, to me this is foolish to say. Even if he doesnt want to sell modern kit, it doesnt make sense to hurl stones at what other people choose to ride. we're all out there riding bikes and that's a good thing. presumably, some people who ride rivendell stuff also ride modern bikes, so to tell them they are wrong is not a good public statement.

contrast that to Jan at Compass. All compass sells is retro-type gear, but Jan seems happy to ride modern disc bikes, post about it on insta, and sell his world class tires to anyone who wants to ride them. compass tires wind up on everything from the most modern bike to the 1970's stuff - it's all good and his tires ride great on all of them. that's a winning formula IMO.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

yes, to me this is foolish to say. Even if he doesn't want to sell modern kit, it doesn't make sense to hurl stones at what other people choose to ride. we're all out there riding bikes and that's a good thing. presumably.

Yup, never makes sense, as you 'market' YOUR product, to slam the competitor rather than extol the virtues of what YOU are selling..

[peanutgallery]

Brifters on a riv? How many demerits that

Originally Posted by weisan

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Brifters on a riv? How many demerits that

and a newfangled cyclo-computer

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

Brifters on a riv? How many demerits that

Along with way wrong bolts on down tube cable stops..c'mon!! gotta have some proper bolts in that drawer of bolts..they DO reproduce, ya know.

[peanutgallery]

If I was still selling straight skis and rear entry boots I'd be hurting too

Some tech advancements are useless, but some really change the game for your customers. The market will sort that out. Stick for a front mech? Meh, I don't care how fit you are

Originally Posted by Burnette

I read all of that and wow, twenty to thirty years in the past, entrenched in it and not entertaining trying to change. OK.

They are living on hope that they have enough like minded customers to maintain the place. I wish them well but anybody reading that would be hesitant to sink six figures into that operation.

[charliedid]

Had Rivendell had the wherewithal in 2012 to come out with a bike like the SOMA Wolverine (yes with disc brakes) I dare say we would not be having this conversation. It made too much sense.

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by peanutgallery

If I was still selling straight skis and rear entry boots I'd be hurting too

Some tech advancements are useless, but some really change the game for your customers. The market will sort that out. Stick for a front mech? Meh, I don't care how fit you are

HA! Agree.

To read that blog it's as if everything stopped in1990 or earlier. A person born in 1990 is now 29 years old and they ain't shopping vintage derailleurs for a new bike in masse.

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by Joe Remi

The newest Blahg has a response of sorts, which should generate 5 more pages on this thread while we wait out the winter. Enjoy!

seems like most people here gravitate towards more performance oriented bikes whereas grant (admittedly) seems to be drifting in the opposite direction.

as the great gordon lightfoot said:

' I dont know where we went wrong
but the feelings gone and i just cant get it back'

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by dancinkozmo

seems like most people here gravitate towards more performance oriented bikes whereas grant (admittedly) seems to be drifting in the opposite direction.



as the great gordon lightfoot said:



' I dont know where we went wrong

but the feelings gone and i just cant get it back'

There's a resurgence in steel bikes and Rivendell should be riding that wave. Performance bikes gravitate towards carbon these days.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by SlowPokePete

Maybe having UltraRomance on board will change things for the bette?

I think it probably will.

https://theradavist.com/2019/01/ultr...untain-bike/#1

Originally Posted by charliedid

Was he just a disciple in the past and now officially on the payroll?

That guy sure like riding bikes.

Like

maybe a little too late but its a good move on their part... I mean anything change will be a good move on their part. That bike is still doodoo though, no matter who is trying to sell it (and I do like poppi)

[Burnette]

Originally Posted by Ed-B

I agree, this was clearly my observation when the 650B wheeled all-road/country bikes came back in the 2004 timeframe - especially your point about high performance designs.

The model was based on 1950's French randonneuring, and what was current technology wasn't part of the formula. These early 650B bikes were almost all made from steel, had threaded steering tubes, and rim brakes. The performance road market was carbon, titanium, threadless, integrated controls, etc., and the early 650B bikes were never going to leave their little niche with those older technologies. The Kogswell P/R had a threadless steering tube, and a Rawland model had discs, but those products didn't survive.

While people have ridden mixed surfaces on road oriented bikes for decades, I think the gravel market as we see it today began to gain momentum when disc brakes fitted to bikes with other modern technologies became commercially available.

To bring this back to the main topic of our discussion, I think that Rivendell can capitalize on this market segment by offering a frameset or complete bike that appeals to a larger base of buyers - those of us who appreciate a lightweight and responsive steel bike built with some classic styling elements, sport-oriented geometry and riding position, and the performance and convenience of modern technologies. Make it in Taiwan, with disc brakes, room for 650B and big 700C tires, a threadless 1-1/8" fork with a flat fork crown. Give it some Rivendell/Bridgestone heritage; paint, logos, naming, lugs, silver annodized components, Nitto bar, stem, and seatpost, whatever fits the model and pricepoint. Offer a modern drivetrain with integrated controls. Create a modern interpretation of the bikes we identify with Grant Petersen design; the RB-T, Rambouillet, XO-1, whatever. I know that I would consider such a frame or bike.

Put this bike front and center on the web site

I think it would help Rivendell expand into the mainstream gravel market, regain some of their lost customer base, increase product sales revenue, and yet maintain the identity of the company.

There's good ideas here, but I wonder how deep the financial wound currently is.

As posted earlier, in a business you try and stay at or ahead of your cash and credit. If you're behind it makes it hard to invest in change because you're hamstrung by having to pay high debt balances.

It still looks like a huge cash injection is needed along with a change of business plan.

There is value in the Rivendell name, maybe they can attract an investor to help if they make some of the changes suggested in your post.

[Joe Remi]

Originally Posted by charliedid

!988 even if I recall on the RnR and maybe a year before. I moved back to Chicago in 88' and got a job in the industry from a guy who had one. Both sets of handlebars and everything. :-) Not sure why I never bought one but my wife rides a BG touring bike.

The reason I really think BG kicked it all off as a category is that his bikes were designed to get off the beaten path and do some exploring beyond the main routes. We all come to this from our own experiences and context. There is probably some French person reading this saying....hey we designed that bike in the 1940's!

Bikes

Ah, I forgot about the swappable bars, that was cool!