Vintage bottom bracket removal

[p nut]

I’m going to check out an old Peugeot next week. The bike is in ok shape, but not sure what condition the seat post, stem, and BB are in. I just want to make sure it’s not seized.

I’ve taken off plenty square taper BB’s but not of this vintage. I’m assuming I take off the nut on the crank arm. Do I need a crank puller like Campy’s to take it off? The BB seems straight forward. I have a lock ring wrench that should work.

Also, assuming this is an early 80’s model, would the BB be English thread or Italian?

[zmudshark]

That is a cottered crank. It may not be as easy to get off as you think. If you can borrow a cotter press your job will be easier. The BB is pretty straight forward.

[David Kirk]

You're going to need new pins....they really should be replaced after being used. Plus...taking them out very well could bend the threaded end.

Loosen the nut and back it off so that it's face is about flush with the end of the pin.....than give it a good solid smack with a metal hammer and it should come loose. You'll then just need to remove the nut and slide out the pin.

The BB cups are simple as you'd expect them to be.

When you put the arms back on use new pins (bring old pins to an old school shop as a reference and get new ones) and slip them into place being sure that they are facing the opposite direction. Using your thumb push the pin in while wiggling the arm about. It will stop when things are aligned. Now give it a few firm wraps with your hammer to seat it. Lastly put the nut and washer on and snug them down. The nut is not designed the pull the pin tight but just to keep it from working loose.

Easy peazy.

dave

[pinkshogun]

There's about 4 sizes of cotter pins, width not length, but an issue could be the the angle they are cut. a smaller angled pin will go in further than a larger angled pin and each crank might not be properly aligned to each other

luckily, i inherited a large box of different sized cotter pins years ago and its trial and error when i need to replace them. fortunately i have many options to choose right at home

[Ken Robb]

For laughs you can ask the staff at your nearest Trek Superstore to sell you a couple of these pins.

[NHAero]

I'm going to add one bit to what David Kirk posted. best case is that you put a support under the side if the crank that the cotter is being driven out of, down to the ground/floor, so the force of the blow isn't absorbed by the bearings and cups. I used to use a steel pipe cut to the right length to do this.

[Hellgate]

The BB, is English thread if it's a US bike. The bike looks like a UO8 to me. If you're in Europe it may be French threads. Peugeot, to the best of my knowledge, never used the "superior" Italian threading.

[zzy]

If you're not able to visually ID that type of crankset, I'd advise against messing with it beyond a simple cup adjustment. There was a time when a wrench was expected to custom file the cotter pins perfectly - it's an artform. While they're not hard to get out (with a punch and hammer, or ideally a press) they can be nightmares to get back in (even when reusing the pins, and esp if you used a punch). On top of that, a BB of that age will surely need a rebuild and finding parts may be a nightmare, esp if French threaded.

As for the BB standard, don't assume anything with Peugeot. At one point or another they used nearly every standard, including Swiss! There's a table online somewhere (St. Sheldon?) that helps determine the BB based on the date of MFG, but most of the American mass market ones were English by the mid 80s.

[NHAero]

If you are only trying to verify that the cups aren't frozen into the BB threads, you can likely do that without messing with the cotters.

[Peter P.]

Delete-duplicate post.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

For laughs you can ask the staff at your nearest Trek Superstore to sell you a couple of these pins.

THAT was funny!

To what was already said: As Dave Kirk said, loosen the cotter pin nut until flush with the end of the threads then I'll add, place a piece of wood against the nut and hit THE WOOD with the hammer. That will preserve the threads, in case you have to reuse the cotter pins. Squirting some lube on the cotter pin wouldn't hurt.

As pinkshogun mentioned, cotter pins come in a variety of diameters. If buying replacements, buy the same diameter.

To verify the BB threading, according to The Sutherland's Manual, "...if the fixed cup has 8 flats it is left threaded; if it has 2 flats it is right threaded. The manual also has info on how to identify the threading based on markings on the adjustable cup or lockring. You're welcome to PM me and I can help you identify it.

Also, the headset may be likewise non-English or Italian so be aware of this.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

For laughs you can ask the staff at your nearest Trek Superstore to sell you a couple of these pins.

Ask for the titanium ones.

[Frankwurst]

Originally Posted by thwart

Ask for the titanium ones.

Do they make those?

[dddd]

I strongly suggest not forcing the pins out with either impact or a press unless the knuckle of the crankarm is first heated at least until some smoke issues from it after the torch is pulled away.
Peugeot factory-installed cotters have never come out damage-free for me without heat, using any of various methods. I have seen the threaded stem of many cotters bend when heat wasn't used.

It is a bit of a disaster having to replace these fine, hardened cotters after the threaded part is inevitably bent and/or squashed from attempts at removal.
Available modern replacements tend to be non-machined pieces, made from inadequately-hardened steel.
Original hardened French cotters having entirely correct dimensions have been ever-harder to source, though I would say that they are worth searching for if needed.

I also would follow the advice of zzy and simply service the bb externally, only as needed. You can apply oil by dripping in which works fine for many long miles, or you can blast in some aerosol lithium grease using the applicator tube. I have done it this way more than once on old French bikes that were to be hard-ridden, and have never regretted it.
Note that the Peugeot fixed cup invariably has been torqued in for life at the factory and will not loosen on it's own. And, that there is no danger of it becoming impossible to remove just because you left it in place for another 10 or 20 years. This is not the place where dissimilar materials will act to create a galvanically-welded disaster.

But again, if you want to remove the cotters, apply heat with a propane torch for a good few minutes before any use of force. The heat will not damage anything since it is only going to a few hundred degrees to create the mild grease smoke-out and which will not result in paint, chrome or other damage if the heat is directed directly at the crankarm end.

[classtimesailer]

If the bike is free, you can have an adventure tuning it up. If that was a picture of the bike you will be checking out, and you are spending even the change off your dresser, keep looking. There are plenty of Peugeots with cottered cranks out there in good shape--paint and component wise.