CF Track Wheels

[false_Aest]

I'm almost done with a track frame for my shop mate and the topic of wheels came up. He has deep pockets but not deep enough to warrant the Mavic wheelsets.

Seems most "modern" cf rims are optimized for cross winds, wider tires, etc. Those aren't really concerns on the track, especially outside.

So am I wrong in thinking that we should just get some "old skool" (23mm wide) 60 or 80mm hoops from Asia and lace them up to some good hubs?

IIRC the optimal ratio for tire to rim width is 1 : 1.05+ (20mm tire : 21mm rim, 23mm tire : 24.15mm rim, etc).
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FWIW, I find this question kind've funny.
Bike = round tubes
Fork = wound up
Pedals = Time
Shoes = Sidi
Helmet = Kask Valegro

I think more aero gains could come from changing a bunch of the other things.

[ftf]

Personally I would go for Zipp 808 laced to phil wood hubs.

[FlashUNC]

I'd vote he save up for the Cometes.

Corima makes some track wheels too.

[AngryScientist]

Bora Ultra Pista?

[ultraman6970]

Im sure some ex serious trackers are looking at this post with one eye open

[Gummee]

The new gen of 'crosswind optimized' aero rims are going to be more aero than the old V-shaped rims.

I have a pair of 303 rim brake tubulars that I could sell for relatively inexpensively. Use a locking skewer for the front, and re-hub the rear with a 24h freewheel hub.

M

[carpediemracing]

Originally Posted by false_Aest

I'm almost done with a track frame for my shop mate and the topic of wheels came up. He has deep pockets but not deep enough to warrant the Mavic wheelsets.

Seems most "modern" cf rims are optimized for cross winds, wider tires, etc. Those aren't really concerns on the track, especially outside.

So am I wrong in thinking that we should just get some "old skool" (23mm wide) 60 or 80mm hoops from Asia and lace them up to some good hubs?

IIRC the optimal ratio for tire to rim width is 1 : 1.05+ (20mm tire : 21mm rim, 23mm tire : 24.15mm rim, etc).
----


FWIW, I find this question kind've funny.
Bike = round tubes
Fork = wound up
Pedals = Time
Shoes = Sidi
Helmet = Kask Valegro

I think more aero gains could come from changing a bunch of the other things.

I don't get the "outside" part.

I'm delving into track racing with only one real "season" of racing, plus a few days racing here and there. I'm looking to get back into it and am looking to outfit a bike for 2020. For me I'm looking for a disk rear and using either a current TriSpoke or perhaps one of my taller front wheels (front wheels are easy to convert, rears are trickier).

The tracks I've raced on were all outdoor and even a front TriSpoke would catch some wind. I ran a 24" disk up front a few days outside and it was totally uncontrollable in many situations, like swerving 8 feet to the side uncontrollable.

On the other hand I've run a disk wheel in the back of the bike in many crits and in group training rides (Tues Night Sprints) with no ill effect. A rear disk is virtually always usable.

My more experienced track friends advised me to run disks front and rear if indoors, but outdoors a multi spoke front with a disk rear.

Other things help with aero but aero wheels sail well in cross tailwinds, something that other aero bits really don't do. If your friend wants wheels and he can afford them, he should get wheels.

[nooneline]

Originally Posted by false_Aest

I'm almost done with a track frame for my shop mate and the topic of wheels came up. He has deep pockets but not deep enough to warrant the Mavic wheelsets.

Seems most "modern" cf rims are optimized for cross winds, wider tires, etc. Those aren't really concerns on the track, especially outside.

So am I wrong in thinking that we should just get some "old skool" (23mm wide) 60 or 80mm hoops from Asia and lace them up to some good hubs?

IIRC the optimal ratio for tire to rim width is 1 : 1.05+ (20mm tire : 21mm rim, 23mm tire : 24.15mm rim, etc).
----

I'd say that contemporary road rims are optimized for aerodynamics in dynamic conditions. They're also meant to be aerodynamic in both the leading and trailing edges (not so for old Vs); and they're meant to be aero with wider tires.

On the track, you're not going to use anything wider than a 23, so you can go with a conventionally narrower rim (some high-end wheels are a *stunningly* narrow rim bed optimized for 19-21mm wide tires). But you'll still benefit from some type of contemporary u-shaped rim.

Personally I'd recommend 60mm rims; never particularly cared for how 80s feel but frankly once I'm racing I'm not thinking about my wheels. They key part - particularly for racing outdoors - is that once you're riding them, you're ignoring them. If you're getting blown around, or if you've picked rims that are too wide and require tires that have some squish (deformation in the bankings) at speed, then you're not ignoring them.

[m_sasso]

Not sure I understand your outdoor comment also. Are you thinking racing or training?

Training/tracking riding you are going to want something highly versatile especially if outdoors as any wind will be a large factor on what is ridable. Any wheel set deeper than a 40mm is going to be greatly wind impacted on outdoor tracks.

The requirements for training/track riding and track racing are quite different and to further deconstruct competitive track racing the various specialized disciplines and its competitive equipment are quite different.

Are you thinking mass start events, pursuits, sprints……etc?

It is akin to having the right tool to do the job and to be competitive even at a club level these days you are going to want a set of wheels to match your chosen discipline. For example the desired qualities and characteristics of competitive indoor pursuit wheels are very different than outdoor mass start wheels.

If you could be a bit more specific in what you are looking to do it would be much simpler to provide a bit more direction?

I indoor track club race weekly during winter and can be found at outdoor regional events monthly through out the summer.

Currently using three sets of wheels,
Training: Campagnolo Pista hubs, Sapim spokes, Velocity Aerohead rims, GP4000 clincher tires
Racing, indoors, outdoors no significant wind: Fast Forward F9T, Sonderklasse tubular tires
Racing, indoors, outdoors light wind: Miche Supertype Spx5, Sonderklasse tubular tire

[Gummee]

Specialized/HED Trispokes are still some of the fastest things out there, but they're not especially light. Buddy of mine used to race a pair of them. ...course he was fast to start with

Pair that front wheel with a disc rear wheel and you've got a fast wheelset. Not terribly quick to accelerate, but top end will be great.

I used to race a 24h Zipp 440 + Superbe Pro wheelset till I added a disc to that Zipp front. The best thing about a disc in the rear is that there's no spoke drag. The faster you go the faster they are.

I always trained on 32/32 box-section tubular wheels tho.

M

[false_Aest]

Sorry there was a typo in my original post.

I meant to say that cross winds aren't really a concern on an indoor track.

In terms of what events, I have no idea. We didn't get that far into the discussion and I'm not a track guy (though I wish I was especially after building this bike).