New Campagnolo Ekar coming on February 20th?

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by nalax

Funny how this thread starts out about a lower priced Ekar group and a new Zonda disc wheelset changes into Rolex vs $5000 groups. Seems to me that Campy might be trying to make Ekar more affordable...but I could be wrong according to...

Anyway I've ridden my old Ekar group in this warm midwestern winter and it is still working great. Not much to complain about except for the expensive chain C-links which are one time use.

I have re-used my C-link at least 3 times - waxing chains - and it is still OK. I have back ups that I purchased here (https://www.condorcycles.com/product...39782431031446) for $18. Chain is only $40 - so I purchased another chain and rotate them in waxing.

[nickl]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

None of the other major component brands has released a $5,500 drivetrain (and that price doesn't even include a power meter).

A major component brand that also gives customers options that can be obtained for roughly a quarter of their highest price group, see Ekar GT and Centaur but the competitors fanboys choose ignore those alternatives.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

All I know is that whatever Campagnolo introduces today, the people on paceline will continue to whine about Campagnolo, be disappointed and wonder how they are still in business.

Nailed it!

[Gwerziou]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

People keep quoting this too. I find it interesting. It isn't the worst thing that could happen to a business, but it also isn't a sign of a well run business if they truly are running out of product each year.

I think you've made a logic error in equating 'running out of product' with 'sells out of everything they make'.

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

People keep quoting this too. I find it interesting. It isn't the worst thing that could happen to a business, but it also isn't a sign of a well run business if they truly are running out of product each year.

Completely disagree.

Look at what a lot of brands did during the Pandemic fitness boom for example: Peloton, and others saw huge increases in sales numbers, so they started producing more and more product to meet increased demand. Then the demand goes back down, and they have to have layoffs, sell equipment, etc.

I would much rather work for a good stable company, which sells everything they make, rather than one that guesses the market and gets it wrong.

[ridethecliche]

I’d posit that campy is forced to innovate re speeds to stay relevant since the two S brands have more market share especially as OEMs.

I’m not sold on the 1x stuff in general but if I was considering a move to an entirely new ecosystem, I’d certainly be thinking about EKAR especially if I was building a bike.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Completely disagree.

Look at what a lot of brands did during the Pandemic fitness boom for example: Peloton, and others saw huge increases in sales numbers, so they started producing more and more product to meet increased demand. Then the demand goes back down, and they have to have layoffs, sell equipment, etc.

I would much rather work for a good stable company, which sells everything they make, rather than one that guesses the market and gets it wrong.

The phrase "sells everything they make" could mean a lot of things. Could mean the healthiest business alive with perfect forecasting. Or, could mean production problems, supply problems, poor forecasting, etc. As I said, it is not the worst thing that could happen to a company, but the phrase "sells everything they make" doesn't tell you if it is a stable company or not. And I am not suggesting that they are NOT a stable company. It is just that this point has been put forward several times, and: 1. Has it been verified. 2. As someone who looks at financial statements every day, it just begs some additional clarification.

But apparently Gwerziou knows, so I would love to hear the details from him. Please clarify the difference in selling everything you make vs. running out of product.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by nickl

A major component brand that also gives customers options that can be obtained for roughly a quarter of their highest price group, see Ekar GT and Potenza…but the competitors fanboys choose ignore those alternatives.

We don't know yet what the street price of Ekar GT will be, but it's list price is about 3 times higher than the street price of Shimano's lowest cost gravel group (RX400). And Potenza has been gone for several years now (probably due to it not being able to compete on price in the OEM market).

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

The phrase "sells everything they make" could mean a lot of things. Could mean the healthiest business alive with perfect forecasting. Or, could mean production problems, supply problems, poor forecasting, etc. As I said, it is not the worst thing that could happen to a company, but the phrase "sells everything they make" doesn't tell you if it is a stable company or not. And I am not suggesting that they are NOT a stable company. It is just that this point has been put forward several times, and: 1. Has it been verified. 2. As someone who looks at financial statements every day, it just begs some additional clarification.

As drivetrain makers go, Simplex also sells everything they make. Of course they've been out of business for over 30 years, but of the zero products they make, they sell all of it!

[gfk_velo]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Are rim part of these wheels the same as fulcrum? I have found fulcrum wheels to be rock solid - albeit heavy.

Yes, the cassette bodies and hub components are generally common across the Campag and Fulcrum ranges.

Races and balls, axles and cones or in the case of sealed bearings, the specs of the cartridges used - are shared as is most of the manufacturing. Ditto heat and surface treatments of the alloys. Some spokes are also shared, mostly radial but there are some common lengths and configurations amoungst the "crossing" spokes too, even though the differences in spoke pattern don't allow the hub shells to be shared, necessarily.

The way those parts are assembled into the hub shells are basically the same across the two brands and have been practiaclly forever - with the exception of the entry level Fulcrum (Racing 9 / 900) where they are stand-alone as "Racing Sport" used to be.

Some rim extrusions are the same (in terms of both material and physical dimensions) but differently treated in terms of final machining, some are different - none of the carbon rims are shared AFAICR.

[gfk_velo]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Completely disagree.

Look at what a lot of brands did during the Pandemic fitness boom for example: Peloton, and others saw huge increases in sales numbers, so they started producing more and more product to meet increased demand. Then the demand goes back down, and they have to have layoffs, sell equipment, etc.

I would much rather work for a good stable company, which sells everything they make, rather than one that guesses the market and gets it wrong.

I think it's sometimes tough to be a company that is just the right size when all around think that you need to be on a constant growth curve - not to drop the name - but I remember when I worked for Merckx (which I was very privelidged to do for 2 1/2 years), he told me he was happy making 7000 units a year - the company was of a size that he was comfortable with.

When Sobradis bought the company and tried to hothouse it into a brand to compete with Bianchi Reparto Course (the stated objective of the then-new CEO), it crashed and burned.

[nickl]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

We don't know yet what the street price of Ekar GT will be, but it's list price is about 3 times higher than the street price of Shimano's lowest cost gravel group (RX400). And Potenza has been gone for several years now (probably due to it not being able to compete on price in the OEM market).

Never said Ekar or any other Campagnolo group was the least expensive alternative, that is not something they ever had as an aspiration. Also, Potenza is in the Campagnolo catalog and is still readily available.

https://www.campagnolo.com/us-en/centaur-rim-brake/

[slowpoke]

Originally Posted by nickl

Also, Potenza is in the Campagnolo catalog and is still readily available.

https://www.campagnolo.com/us-en/centaur-rim-brake/

Did you mean to write "Centaur" and not "Potenza", or is this a joke about rebranding? Because the parts are different.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by nickl

Never said Ekar or any other Campagnolo group was the least expensive alternative, that is not something they ever had as an aspiration. Also, Potenza is in the Campagnolo catalog and is still readily available.

https://www.campagnolo.com/us-en/centaur-rim-brake/

A 3:1 difference in least expensive offerings is more than just "not least expensive alternative", it is a whole different market segment. And that's just the point: Campagnolo is in a whole different market segment from others, and based on the substantial difference in pricing, it could be considered the "Luxury" market segment.

And Centaur is not Potenza. Potenza last appeared in the 2018 catalog, and if you look at that catalog you can see there is quite a bit of difference between the two.

[nickl]

Campagnolo obviously is not the least expensive and certainly isn’t an equivalent to their competitor’s example you provided. For example, Ekar features carbon fiber cranks, rebuildable brifters, 13 speed cassette, etc. What is the RX400, a 10 speed?

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/produ.../RD-RX400.html