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  #1921  
Old 12-06-2021, 01:50 PM
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David Kirk David Kirk is offline
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Location: Bozeman MT
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Originally Posted by phishrabbi View Post
I suspect that a MRB would be a vast selling "model-" I'm sorely tempted to call and begin the process of ordering one myself.

I'd also suggest that you demonstrate that the bike could take the knobby version of the RH 38mm "Barlow Pass", the "Stellacoom"

I've run both, and while the Barlow Pass handles gravel acceptably, the Stellacoom gives significantly more traction in the loose stuff while giving up shockingly little on tarmac.
I wonder how wide and tall the knobby tire is? Do you have a good set of calipers so that you could measure the width of the tire, knobs included, at it's widest part?

dave
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  #1922  
Old 12-06-2021, 02:02 PM
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David Kirk David Kirk is offline
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Originally Posted by roguedog View Post
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, Dave.

I think level two is where much of the framebuilder's experience comes into play. Seems there a lot of grey area in there; a lot to play with in there to try to discern the reasons for the bike's manners. Hmm.. and perhaps this is where the framebuilder's signature feel comes in? How do they want the bike to feel and handle will influence how they put together and select the tubes.

I feel like this where the framebuilder is a bit like Ollivander from Harry Potter. I was just trying to get some insight into how a framebuilder makes the jump from understanding what the customer wants/needs with how to and where to put together some tubes.
I think that you are right.....the builder decides how it will ride given their take on things.

There's all kind of levels of involvement here on the builders part. At one end of the spectrum you have builders who pick the "cool" tubes and build with them and then accept whatever ride the tube/design combo gives and call that a "good" ride.

At the other end you have builders that spec tubes and test them and then refine the spec and retest and hone the ride that way. For these builders the ride comes first and the tubes and parts are designed to give the desired end result. This type of builder is much less common.

I get why....it's a PITA to build bikes just to test. Time is taken from paying builds to make something that may never see the light of day and this cost money. And then to think that the design will probably need to be refined so that more work needs to be done and one can dig a deep hole pretty quickly. Tooling costs, min quantities, shipping all add to the time invested and make tailoring the ride an expensive proposition. But for me it's worth it. I'm a rider who appreciates a certain feel and level of performance and it I didn't love the ride of the bikes I build it would be hard to belly up to the bench everyday.

My 2 cents.

dave
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  #1923  
Old 12-06-2021, 02:04 PM
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phishrabbi phishrabbi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirk View Post
I wonder how wide and tall the knobby tire is? Do you have a good set of calipers so that you could measure the width of the tire, knobs included, at it's widest part?

dave

I don't, but having swapped out the slicks for the knobbies, the knobbies are actually narrower if anything, which is indeed what the RH website says.

Stellacoom:
Actual width on 20 mm rim (internal): approx. 36 mm
Actual width on 23 mm rim (internal): approx. 38 mm

Barlow Pass
Actual width on 20 mm rim (internal): approx. 38 mm
Actual width on 23 mm rim (internal): approx. 39 mm
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  #1924  
Old 12-06-2021, 02:41 PM
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David Kirk David Kirk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phishrabbi View Post
I don't, but having swapped out the slicks for the knobbies, the knobbies are actually narrower if anything, which is indeed what the RH website says.

Stellacoom:
Actual width on 20 mm rim (internal): approx. 36 mm
Actual width on 23 mm rim (internal): approx. 38 mm

Barlow Pass
Actual width on 20 mm rim (internal): approx. 38 mm
Actual width on 23 mm rim (internal): approx. 39 mm
I've seen that but I wondered if the measurement is the casing or the knob. There's no standard out there and some measure the casing width (between the knobs) and some measure to the widest point on the knob.

If the width includes the knobs that tire would fit in my new bike.

dave
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  #1925  
Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM
truth truth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kirk View Post
I've seen that but I wondered if the measurement is the casing or the knob. There's no standard out there and some measure the casing width (between the knobs) and some measure to the widest point on the knob.

If the width includes the knobs that tire would fit in my new bike.

dave
On my worn Steilacoom EL at 50 psi on H+Son Archetypes (23mm external width) the side knobs don't stick out any farther than the sidewall. Tire height is just shy of the 37.5 mm width.

A new, unridden Steilacoom Endurance at 50 psi on an Easton EA90SLX (20.5mm external width) the side knobs don't stick out any farther than the sidewall. Tire height is just shy of the 36.5 width.

I think I gained a little clearance switching from the barlow pass. I don't have that tire mounted and can't find it at the moment.
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