Builder's Spotlight The Paceline Forum Builder's Spotlight


Go Back   The Paceline Forum > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 08-17-2019, 09:52 AM
oldpotatoe's Avatar
oldpotatoe oldpotatoe is offline
Proud Grandpa
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Republic of Boulder, USA
Posts: 36,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hilltopperny View Post
No22 uses triple butted USA sourced titanium if I am not mistaken and is more in line with an RSL than a Vamoots. Moots makes a great bike as well, but an RSL is significantly more expensive.

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk
Well sorta..RSL also has 6/4 titanium bits. And the walls of the Vamoots essentially the same thickness as the thinnest parts of the No22 tubes. Really tough to compare. Butting more often than not on ti frames for marketing rather than any 'performance' items. ..

Both great frames..But the OP is looking for resale $, which I don't think should be part of the decision, but that's just MO..

Ride, fit, customer service..things like that..not how much is it worth in X number of years..
__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels
Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:05 AM
dbnm dbnm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,775
I would look for a Moots with rim brakes. Unless you ride the mountains and ride in rain often, disc just isn't needed. (Count the rim brake bikes in the last TdF).
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:10 AM
BobC BobC is offline
BillC's Evil Twin Brother
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 426
My 2 cents having gone through this process getting a titanium race bike.

Did a lot of research and went with Dean. Great bike at what I consider great value.
Originally was going to get a stock, contacted them in the end got a fantastic custom El Diente.

Simply put, incredible bike. My greatest compliment is that I don't even notice it when I ride (or race).

Contact Johannes at Dean.
__________________
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo- Ovid
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:29 AM
cribbit cribbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY / Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 891
Are you buying used or new?

I buy a lot of titanium bikes. I have 4 full bikes and 6 frames right now, and I've sold about two dozen in the last two years.

A used rim brake titanium bike (assuming you properly negotiated price) basically can't go down in value. They hold up better than any other material, typically had a top of the line group from when it was new, and are going to last forever. I'm also in Brooklyn, I can help you find one.

If you have to go new and want the absolute best $$$/performance ratio, a Lynskey frame for $800 is incredible. They come up straight from Lynskey with their full proper warranty a few times a year. You can even get the nice modern thru axle disc brake stuff which will hold value even better (rim brake is donezo)

If you go new from any other manufacturer avoid rim brake, it will not hold value. Even a moots.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:40 AM
Hilltopperny's Avatar
Hilltopperny Hilltopperny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lassellsville NY
Posts: 4,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
Well sorta..RSL also has 6/4 titanium bits. And the walls of the Vamoots essentially the same thickness as the thinnest parts of the No22 tubes. Really tough to compare. Butting more often than not on ti frames for marketing rather than any 'performance' items. ..



Both great frames..But the OP is looking for resale $, which I don't think should be part of the decision, but that's just MO..



Ride, fit, customer service..things like that..not how much is it worth in X number of years..
All things considered I haven't seen too many No22 on the used market yet, but I would bet that they retain as much value in the sold Market as a comparable Moots. They just haven't been around as long or produced as many bikes yet.

I have owned a Vamoots, a newer RSL, Routt and Psychlo x. I currently own a Drifter and a Great divide. I didnt lose any $ when selling the second hand Moots bikes and they were all top notch.

The moots finish is very industrial with $$ options to make them a bit flashier whereas the No22s get polished masked and then blasted included in the price.

I did forget about the RSL getting 6/4 seat stays. The overall ride between the RSL and Great divide are very good. Smooth, stiff, snappy while retaining a very comfortable ride. Either bike is an excellent choice.

Time will tell if No22 holds its value as well. I hadn't checked out the pricing recently as they have gone up a bit since I purchased mine in 2017. Looks like the frame is around what the framesets were a few years ago? 20190715_153735.jpg20190715_153410.jpg

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 08-17-2019, 10:52 AM
cribbit cribbit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Brooklyn, NY / Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 891
22's hold value like a Seven, maybe Mosaic/Firefly if it's a nicer model - moots is just a whole different level of crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:09 AM
bob heinatz bob heinatz is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 628
Moots seem to hold their value the best. I have bought a few used here and none were steals but both great bikes. As already mentioned in numerous posts get a bike that fits and enjoy it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:29 AM
Hilltopperny's Avatar
Hilltopperny Hilltopperny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lassellsville NY
Posts: 4,400
I just did a little research and it further proves my point. Go to adrenaline bikes and have a look at No22 frame and frameset prices. They are literally half of a comparable Mosaic, 2/3 of a comparable Moots. I couldn't find actual pricing on the Seven website for just frame/frameset.

I don't see them losing too much value comparably if they hit the used market since the company has only been producing bikes for around 5 years. I know I seem biased since I own a couple of them, but dollar for dollar they are the best deal going for high end titanium bikes IMHO.

A Lynskey is a bargain if you can find them on closeout new, but its been around two years since they were blowing out new frames for $800 and they do not have the same level of finish or details as most others without extra $$$. Still likely the best deal going for a great riding titanium bike that you can pick up new for less than one would lose on almost any high end titanium bike.

Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 08-17-2019, 11:55 AM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,654
https://lynskeyperformance.com/premier-road-frame/

They still offer deals.

I'm not a big Lynskey fan, but $900 and no silly dropouts..

There's an XL on eBay w Enve fork and Cane Creek 110 HS for $799 obo.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
__________________
Kirk MRB | Moots Routt RSL | Trek Procaliber 9.9 RSL
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:35 PM
9tubes 9tubes is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Amazonville, WA
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhespenheide View Post
I'd have to disagree.

Custom is only custom for the original buyer.

After that, it's just as much of a crap shoot whether someone else's custom fits another potential buyer as a stock frame would. If you're looking at resale value, commissioning a custom frame is a money-losing proposition.

A Ti Lynskey is probably the best bet in terms of absolute minimum $$$ lost on a Ti frame bought new; hunt for their sales and you'll score something. But really, you should buy a used Ti frame (that can fit 28's, with rim brakes), and just go ride the snot out of it. The Ti LeMonds can sometimes be found used for sweetheart deals and they ride great.

I agree when we're talking about custom dimensions. I should have been clear that I was talking about custom-builder quality. There are good reasons that a used Hampsten sells for far more than a used Lynskey or LeMond or Performance-Douglas.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-17-2019, 01:51 PM
Hilltopperny's Avatar
Hilltopperny Hilltopperny is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lassellsville NY
Posts: 4,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
https://lynskeyperformance.com/premier-road-frame/

They still offer deals.

I'm not a big Lynskey fan, but $900 and no silly dropouts..

There's an XL on eBay w Enve fork and Cane Creek 110 HS for $799 obo.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
I was not aware of the Premier, but had a r260 and liked it. I would buy and ride one of those premiers at that price any day. It would make a nice all around any weather bike.


Sent from my LGL423DL using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-17-2019, 02:28 PM
Blue Jays Blue Jays is offline
Rock Hard ~ Ride Free
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United States of America
Posts: 3,850
Simply get on the build list to have a Spectrum custom-built for you.

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:01 PM
sw3759's Avatar
sw3759 sw3759 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Fort Worth & Ardmore
Posts: 1,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Jays View Post
Simply get on the build list to have a Spectrum custom-built for you.

Tom Kellogg is retiring and not taking any new orders as of 8/1/19
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-17-2019, 03:18 PM
BobC BobC is offline
BillC's Evil Twin Brother
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 426
I think some folks should re-read what OP stated,
"to stretch my purchasing dollar"

Firefly, Moots, No22, etc. are fantastic bikes, but at a huge premium.

Lynskeys are good. I would recommend at least take a look at Dean as well. Personally I think that is more what you are after.
__________________
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo- Ovid
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-17-2019, 05:02 PM
Dino Suegiù Dino Suegiù is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 444
This thread is so obsessed-cyclist-heavy (which is of course 100% normal considering the forum we are on).

But come on...Baum, 22, Firefly, Mosaic, etc???
Those and others are all great brands, but mainly for the cognoscenti.
The general or "not as expert" public, which I would think would play heavily into "hold its value best", know nothing about those brands.

My brother (a very dedicated recreational cyclist but not in any way a nerd about it like many of us, he really couldn't give two whits about it) wanted a titanium bicycle (and was not going to budge off of his "Titanium are the best because they are the most durable." hill).

I tried and tried and tried to convince him of this or that ti brand, and the pros and cons of each. No, no, and no.

He bought, of course, a new Moots.

In fact he bought a new Moots also precisely because of his, fallacious or not, notion that Moots "are the best investment" of all. He briefly considered, for the nano-est of seconds, Seven and Litespeed (this was a while ago), only those two other brands, but it was Moots by a mile, not even close, and I really do believe that he represents a big piece of the public perception pie.

A used Moots cannot be beat, imo.
Even in Europe Moots are considered exquisite, with a very special cachet.


NB: also agree w/BobC just above. The title is important.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.