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Old 07-15-2019, 06:18 AM
marciero marciero is offline
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The Save the Planet thread

This is partially prompted by the make-up remover/wipes thread. I think we can talk about the environmental impact of our practices and the products we use without a) smugness, judging, or shaming of someone who, god forbid, might have used a disposable product, b) calling PC when someone advocates less impactful alternatives, c) drifting into the very concrete political implications.

Two things I’ve thought about are zip ties and nitrile gloves. Used zip ties have got to be much worse than straws, with a barb and sharp edges. In the past I’ve used these for all sorts of bike-related things but am going to make serious effort to eliminate for all but permanent or at least semi-permanent use. Cloth straps, Voile straps, rawhide shoelaces are some alternatives.

Nitrile gloves... These are hard for me to give up. THis can ease some of the guilt but I am dubious-they claim to recycle anything.
https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/zer...posable-gloves
Even if they are in fact recycling the waste products, recycling can have varying degrees of impact.
I think more permanent dishwaser-type gloves are a pretty straightforward solution, though you cant pick a dime...

Convenience items while touring are also troubling (to me anyway) like disposal of bottles and cans at convenience stores, not to mention junk food items and waste. Often (usually?) these stores do not have a recycling receptacle. One would have to carry the empty bottle in their pack until the next opportunity to recycle.

I am doing a short tour this week and may try to keep a record of my practices.

Another thing is air travel. I took one trip this year whose sole purpose was cycling. Maybe one trip per year is okay for me. I’m not sure. Each of us has to decide this type of thing for ourselves.

I’d be interested in people’s thoughts on these; again, without judgement.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:01 AM
Clancy Clancy is offline
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Sorry to be this cynical but....

I cut down my use of electricity by keeping the thermostat high, turn off lights when not in use, in order to minimize my impact on the environment.

Meanwhile, the stores in the local outdoor gigantic mall keep their doors wide open with cold air pouring out to make it more inviting for customers. This is in San Antonio!

(Couple years ago I wrote a letter to the mall owner’s pointing out the insane wastefulness of this practice, they responded by saying they have no control over their tenants. When commenting to a co-worker, she responded how nice it is to go shopping with a baby stroller and not to have to open doors. )

We have long pasted the tipping point.

Protecting rather than modifying capitalism has led to the destruction of our planet.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Another thing is air travel. I took one trip this year whose sole purpose was cycling.
I heard yesterday on NPR that ONE flight from LA to NY results in 32 square feet of arctic ice melting...Not sure how they get to that but aircraft are VERY dirty..comparatively.

BUT unless some of these items get scarce, maybe expensive, but scarce..don't expect use to change much. Few people do these things mentioned because 'it's good for the environment'..most use these items because they are cheap and plentiful.

Sorry, pretty cynical about this. Having national leaders poo-poo all this in the name of $ doesn't help.

WE probably aren't screwed(baby boomers) but our kids and most certainly or grand kids are...Watch Soylent Green again...
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:16 AM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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How many billions of the earth's residents pay absolutely no mind to environmental concerns? What percentage struggles for basic food and clean water? Treehuggers are right but their concern is meaningless, the horse is out of the barn. The sheer number of resources that humans in general, and Americans in particular, suck thru is staggering. Humans are doomed, basically. Dark thought, but true
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:20 AM
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How many billions of the earth's residents pay absolutely no mind to environmental concerns? What percentage struggles for basic food and clean water? Treehuggers are right but their concern is meaningless, the horse is out of the barn. The sheer number of resources that humans in general, and Americans in particular, suck thru is staggering. Humans are doomed, basically. Dark thought, but true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCCLqpAVg6Y
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:22 AM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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But those 105 kits from the UK, what a deal...right?

Imagine, just the impact of Amazon prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
I heard yesterday on NPR that ONE flight from LA to NY results in 32 square feet of arctic ice melting...Not sure how they get to that but aircraft are VERY dirty..comparatively.

BUT unless some of these items get scarce, maybe expensive, but scarce..don't expect use to change much. Few people do these things mentioned because 'it's good for the environment'..most use these items because they are cheap and plentiful.

Sorry, pretty cynical about this. Having national leaders poo-poo all this in the name of $ doesn't help.

WE probably aren't screwed(baby boomers) but our kids and most certainly or grand kids are...Watch Soylent Green again...
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:26 AM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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I'm looking forward to subterranean living and developing the ability to dodge bullets in slow motion

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Old 07-15-2019, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpotatoe View Post
I heard yesterday on NPR that ONE flight from LA to NY results in 32 square feet of arctic ice melting...Not sure how they get to that but aircraft are VERY dirty..comparatively.

BUT unless some of these items get scarce, maybe expensive, but scarce..don't expect use to change much. Few people do these things mentioned because 'it's good for the environment'..most use these items because they are cheap and plentiful.

Sorry, pretty cynical about this. Having national leaders poo-poo all this in the name of $ doesn't help.

WE probably aren't screwed(baby boomers) but our kids and most certainly or grand kids are...Watch Soylent Green again...
I heard all trees would vanish from the planet when I was about 10yoa. At the time I loved to draw and I asked for paper for my birthday present because I was so scared of losing all the trees and not having paper. It never occurred to me that the loss of toilet paper would have posed a much greater hardship if that disastrous scenario had occurred.

That galvanized my distrust of scientific reports and data and also led to my disbelief that we are causing any of this warming. The planet is warming because that what it do. We are in that cycle and it will cool and warm and cool and warm again ad infinitum.

I'm going to drink through plastic straws and wear nitrile gloves while wiping myself with the best damn products I can find.

Recycle, reuse (well, not the wipes, and conserve when you can. I love the thought of harnessing power from your best available resources whatever they may be, but I am thoroughly unconvinced that this fear mongering is the proper use of science. The salvation of $100k all electric cars does not help anything. It does nothing to minimize the ecological deficit it provides. You just can't convince me otherwise.

I realize I am in the minority here, but my conscience can't allow me to believe things that are unproven or illogical. I am terrible at maths but this math just doesn't work for me.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Tickdoc View Post
I heard all trees would vanish from the planet when I was about 10yoa. At the time I loved to draw and I asked for paper for my birthday present because I was so scared of losing all the trees and not having paper. It never occurred to me that the loss of toilet paper would have posed a much greater hardship if that disastrous scenario had occurred.

That galvanized my distrust of scientific reports and data and also led to my disbelief that we are causing any of this warming. The planet is warming because that what it do. We are in that cycle and it will cool and warm and cool and warm again ad infinitum.

I'm going to drink through plastic straws and wear nitrile gloves while wiping myself with the best damn products I can find.

Recycle, reuse (well, not the wipes, and conserve when you can. I love the thought of harnessing power from your best available resources whatever they may be, but I am thoroughly unconvinced that this fear mongering is the proper use of science. The salvation of $100k all electric cars does not help anything. It does nothing to minimize the ecological deficit it provides. You just can't convince me otherwise.

I realize I am in the minority here, but my conscience can't allow me to believe things that are unproven or illogical. I am terrible at maths but this math just doesn't work for me.
Uh oh.....Ya know gravity is a theory as well, as is evolution...

gonna go get the popcorn.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tickdoc View Post
I heard all trees would vanish from the planet when I was about 10yoa. At the time I loved to draw and I asked for paper for my birthday present because I was so scared of losing all the trees and not having paper. It never occurred to me that the loss of toilet paper would have posed a much greater hardship if that disastrous scenario had occurred.

That galvanized my distrust of scientific reports and data and also led to my disbelief that we are causing any of this warming. The planet is warming because that what it do. We are in that cycle and it will cool and warm and cool and warm again ad infinitum.

.
Far too many "scientific" stories you hear have been heavily filtered through the mainstream media. If you read the actual report you would likely find it quite nuanced with various degrees of probability depending on different outcomes. That is all too much detail for TV and most papers. So, it gets dumbed down to so much click bait.

Tim
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mcteague View Post
Far too many "scientific" stories you hear have been heavily filtered through the mainstream media. If you read the actual report you would likely find it quite nuanced with various degrees of probability depending on different outcomes. That is all too much detail for TV and most papers. So, it gets dumbed down to so much click bait.

Tim
I was beginning to doubt there was an actual report.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:19 AM
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I grew up when most restaurants didn’t provide a straw unless you requested one. In my family, they were requested only when we thought someone was likely to spill their drink if they were just drinking from the glass. Now, it seems every restaurant gives a straw automatically. The only time I use a straw is if I am in the car and have a cup from a fast food place. Why do people use a straw in sit down restaurants?
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:21 AM
marciero marciero is offline
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Originally Posted by Tickdoc View Post
..

That galvanized my distrust of scientific reports and data and also led to my disbelief that we are causing any of this warming. The planet is warming because that what it do. We are in that cycle and it will cool and warm and cool and warm again ad infinitum.

I'm going to drink through plastic straws and wear nitrile gloves while wiping myself with the best damn products I can find.

...

As interesting and important as climate change (as opposed to warming) is as a topic of discussion- man's impact on it, what we need to do or else, etc. I think it's just too huge and potentially thread-closing to argue or discuss here. I certainly dont want to argue science. I had intended to confine the discussion to cycling-related practices (though I'm not the boss of anyone here, and it's probably unrealistic)

So you are using nitrile gloves... I just now used a pair to remove and clean some tubeless tires. They went in the can in the garage. But I am telling/promising myself that I will recycle all those...

Last edited by marciero; 07-15-2019 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:24 AM
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They are all inter-connected

Our attitudes towards the planet cannot be separated from our attitudes towards our fellow human beings and other aspects of life. They are all inter-connected. One bleeds into another.

I sort of chuckle every time I encounter a self-professed "animal lover" who openly declares that, if given the opportunity", they would run over cyclists with their cars.

Or the early morning walker who picks up trash while making their rounds around their neighborhood, got home and saw some neighborhood kids hanging around their front porch and screamed "Get off my lawn!"

You see the irony.

My point is not to demand the perfect scenario.

But merely to point out that, caring for our planet and caring for others, are in essence the same - it starts with a mindfulness of the bigger picture and ends with taking personal responsibility to effect change.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:33 AM
marciero marciero is offline
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Uh oh.....Ya know gravity is a theory as well, as is evolution...

gonna go get the popcorn.
Good point. All of physics is theory. Actually, my prior comment notwithstanding, the idea of scientific theory is another thing worth discussing-maybe here, maybe not. It's pretty clear to me that many do not understand what a scientific theory is and is not, and its purpose and limitations.
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