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  #181  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:09 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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I didn't question anyone's right to have a discussion. It's pointless to respond to me as if I said a thing I didn't say.
  #182  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:35 PM
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seanile seanile is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
I didn't question anyone's right to have a discussion. It's pointless to respond to me as if I said a thing I didn't say.
what else could you have meant by calling it an unhealthy discussion?
  #183  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:36 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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You have the right to participate in unhealthy discussion, I have the right to call it unhealthy. This isn't complicated.
  #184  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:56 PM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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Like too much salt unhealthy...or just that you don't agree with the discourse?

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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
You have the right to participate in unhealthy discussion, I have the right to call it unhealthy. This isn't complicated.
  #185  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:56 PM
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FlashUNC FlashUNC is offline
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Cuts through this conversation like a $140 boutique axe.
  #186  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:13 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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As for Riv being "a mess", that's a very subjective argument based on Grant's very unusual open policy about how the business runs. I realize it still bugs some people, but after 25 years of it I think it's either a thing you get or you don't, there's no right or wrong about it. It's a brick-and-mortar shop trying to keep trucking in an online world, and - as with all of them right now - it's becoming increasingly difficult.

Will it survive beyond Grant, Mark and Rich retiring? Who knows? It's plugged along for 25 years so far, and hopefully has at least a few good ones left. I'm glad it's there and really like the folks I've met, and don't think the email promotion was annoying.

I don't think the baby bike is stupid, either..I see a whole lot of Instagram shots of folks riding their kids. It's not a mass production item, the hope is they'll build a few and sell them. I don't think that's too much to ask.

In conclusion, these are my opinions on an opinion forum. No rights have been abridged in the posting of this note. Thank you and Happy New Year.

Edit: Apologies for the convoluted sentence structure. I tried to tighten it up and made it worse, then gave up. Good luck with the reading!

Last edited by Joe Remi; 01-01-2019 at 05:26 PM.
  #187  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:24 PM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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Did you buy an axe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
As for Riv being "a mess", that's a very subjective argument based on Grant's very unusual open policy about how the business runs. I realize it still bugs some people, but after 25 years of it I think it's either a thing you get or you don't, there's no right or wrong about it. It's a brick-and-mortar shop trying to keep trucking in an online world, and - as with all of them right now - it's becoming increasingly difficult.

Will it survive beyond Grant, Mark and Rich retiring? Who knows? It's plugged along for 25 years so far, and hopefully has at least a few good ones left. I'm glad it's there and really like the folks I've met, and don't think the email promotion was annoying.

I don't think the baby bike is stupid, either..I see a whole lot of Instagram shots of folks riding their kids. It's not a mass production item, the hope is they'll build a few and sell them. I don't think that's too much to ask.

In conclusion, these are my opinions on an opinion forum. No rights have been abridged in the posting of this note. Thank you and Happy New Year.
  #188  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:30 PM
hokoman hokoman is offline
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Joe - Why do you keep using the word 'promotion'? This is far from your typical retail 'promotion'.
  #189  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:31 PM
Skenry Skenry is offline
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
, and don't think the email promotion was annoying.
Maybe not annoying, more like sad. I wish all of them well, no one wants to see a business close, in any industry. I truly feel bad for his employees, they are the ones who stand to get hurt the most. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for Grant AND his staff.

It's just not that hard to sell what people want to buy. I read the RBW list, the iBob list, the Bristone fan facebook, ect.... No one has ever asked for a huge wheelbased, double top tube country bike with homemade rack mounts and grips.

Someone else already mentioned it a couple pages back, want to save the business? Start building the orange Rambouillet again. People are constantly asking for that.
  #190  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:31 PM
dancinkozmo dancinkozmo is online now
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...

Last edited by dancinkozmo; 01-01-2019 at 05:38 PM.
  #191  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:40 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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Originally Posted by dancinkozmo View Post
thats the crux of it...they spend time and money on wacky 'pet projects' that end up not selling , then they need to ask the membership for help to pay the bills.
I'm not sure where you picked up "not selling". As far as I can tell they've sold most every frame they've built, including an unexpectedly popular tandem which is on its second or third run now.

Where I think Riv struggles is in the increasingly competitive online market for bike parts..it's just hard to do in the age of Amazon, and Rivendell is far from unique in this aspect. I'm frankly bewildered at the ire they seem to generate for being in an economy a whole lotta people are struggling with.
  #192  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:42 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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Originally Posted by hokoman View Post
Joe - Why do you keep using the word 'promotion'? This is far from your typical retail 'promotion'.
Promotion: To promote. The email promotes the idea that if you didn't need anything in December, maybe you will in the next couple months and could drop a payment on it now. That's a promotion.
  #193  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:44 PM
CunegoFan CunegoFan is offline
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I think Grant always positioned Rivendell to be on the fringe. When the industry adopted some of those fringe ideas, there was no motivation to declare victory and profit. Instead Grant moved even further afield so Rivendell would still be on the fringe. If the industry players put double top tubes on their rides, Grant will put triples on his.
  #194  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:45 PM
Joe Remi Joe Remi is offline
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Originally Posted by Skenry View Post
Maybe not annoying, more like sad. I wish all of them well, no one wants to see a business close, in any industry. I truly feel bad for his employees, they are the ones who stand to get hurt the most. Hopefully this will be a wake up call for Grant AND his staff.

It's just not that hard to sell what people want to buy. I read the RBW list, the iBob list, the Bristone fan facebook, ect.... No one has ever asked for a huge wheelbased, double top tube country bike with homemade rack mounts and grips.

Someone else already mentioned it a couple pages back, want to save the business? Start building the orange Rambouillet again. People are constantly asking for that.
Everybody wants the thing that isn't made anymore. The orange Ram with full lugs and mid-reach brakes made in Japan would be astronomically expense. The current version is/was the Roadeo made by Waterford, and when was the last time you saw one on the road?

Advising Grant/Riv to make a frame they can't sell in today's market is not wise.
  #195  
Old 01-01-2019, 05:48 PM
peanutgallery peanutgallery is offline
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Did you buy an axe?

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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Everybody wants the thing that isn't made anymore. The orange Ram with full lugs and mid-reach brakes made in Japan would be astronomically expense. The current version is/was the Roadeo made by Waterford, and when was the last time you saw one on the road?

Advising Grant/Riv to make a frame they can't sell in today's market is not wise.
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