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#61
10-20-2015, 08:59 AM
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I've now got 7 races and 10 practice sessions on my EMC taped tubulars. Actually, the first 3 races and 8 practices were on one set and the last 4 races and couple of practice sessions were on a separate set. I bought more wheels and so now have two full sets taped and ready to roll.
All wheels were previously used/glued so I spent hours removing all the old glue to get down to a good clean carbon surface. Two of the tubulars were lightly used (with very little glue remaining on the tape) and two were new. No problems with installation and no problems with "stick". I've put them through their paces, pushing them up to and beyond traction limits in corners at pressures from 25 to 35 psi (I typically run 30-32 rear and 26-28 front for races and a bit higher in practice). I even had to pull one off to true a wheel that got stepped on in a crash in my first race of the season (how I wish my wheels didn't have stupid internal nipples). It didn't come off easy but also did not damage the base tape. I've used Tufo tape before, and this stuff is worlds better. I'm done with gluing tires. I started out buying individual rolls of the stuff but just recently purchased the "shop roll".
__________________
-STEFAN BUY FROM YOUR LBS or from Paceline members 
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#62
12-05-2015, 01:34 PM
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OK, I've run sew ups in the past - glued them, no problems. It's been a long time and I'm getting back into competition, predominantly tri's and TT'ing. Got a new (to me) set of HED stingers and was contemplating using tape simply because I won't be diving in to corners during a six turn crit with them. I actually have used TUFO tape on an older set of alloyed rims that I sold to a friend. He wanted to try it, so I mounted them with the tape for him, and the stuff held very well. My question here is does anyone know how the new TUFO tape is, and would it be wise to stick with what you know, or is the Effetto Mariposa Carogna all it's cracked up to be? Opinions anyone?
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#63
12-05-2015, 03:15 PM
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There seems to be a flurry of posts inquiring whether other taping systems are now going to work better. The reviews here -- good and not so -- have been about the Effete Mariposa Carogna, which has a unique design and unique adhesives. It's completely different from anything else currently in the market. Other products in the market such as Tufo are being revised but not to the degree that they offer the performance of EMC. They have always had some proponents, and that will continue, but these tapes have various limitations and I can't say I'd use them or encourage their use in any way.
As for EMC, I've seen some inconsistent performance, as have others. Sometimes it glues up very securely and lasts forever, other times it doesn't do as well. I suspect part of the problem has to do with whether the tire and rim in question have appropriately matching profiles. The tape isn't going to fix a mismatch in profile, and it'll still be a poor adhesive job. However, it's interesting that I did have one pair of wheels, brand new with new tubulars, just glued up, that after a couple days of use on the track showed areas of almost complete lack of adhesion on the rear wheel only. In looking at a few other cases on the road with a few riders using the tape, it appears that the rear wheel may be incurring most of the problems. Since front and rear would be inflated initially and afterwards maintained at reasonably close to the same pressures and storage conditions, I am guessing that the difference (and guessing at this point) that this tape may not heal from repeated separation as well as a liquid rim cement. Thus, if a rider doesn't ride so as to detach the edges of the tire from the rim, there won't be problems, but if a rider does so regularly -- crit racing, aggressive descending, or some track workouts -- it may not continue to heal. This would also explain the tires that start out glued well but that don't maintain adhesion over time. Entirely speculation at this point, and I'd like to hear from others who may have seen any tape failures and have any ideas about what caused it. I suspect the principal reason for tape adhesion problems is still the profile mismatch, but this may contribute. We have many years of broad experience when gluing with Mastik One -- we understand in detail how it acts and how it fails. It's far from failsafe or foolproof, and there's no reason to believe EMC would any different. So I keep experimenting with it. I'd encourage others to use it and develop more cumulative experience. I would encourage those who want to use Tufo or other tapes to switch to EMC. It does appear to be the best out there by a significant margin. I figure the cost will come down as it becomes established, but for now, use Mastik One or use EMC. My two cents' worth.
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#64
01-06-2016, 12:54 PM
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seems like a couple people raced all of cross season on this stuff with great success. do they want to weigh in?
reading back through this, I'm curious if my issues stemmed from using GooGone and/or DeSolvit to clean up the rims before applying the tape. I cleaned the rims with rubbing alcohol after using those solvents and gave time for everything to evaporate before installing the tape/tires. perhaps this wasn't enough and there were remnants of the citrus based, heavy duty solvents on the rim still, impeding the adhesion of the tape? I noticed also that EM has updated their carogna product page with a guide for using it for cyclocross. they note that one should not scuff up their rims (though it doesn't sound like anyone here that had issues did that) and that one should also install north of 50 degrees and pump the tires up to max pressure. temperature and pressure make this stuff cure. I didn't do that. I didn't air up past 40 psi or so and I did everything in my basement, which is just above 50 degrees.
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#65
08-24-2016, 04:55 PM
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Any updates, cx season is only a couple weeks away. I've used the mastik remover that EMC sells and it works quite good. I have been able to get down to a bare rim with limited effort. I have one roll of tape, I figured I would start with a rear wheel as the consequences of rolling it seem less.
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#66
08-24-2016, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
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#67
08-24-2016, 05:32 PM
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+1 for the tape
I've never used glue, and decided to use this tape when I got a steal on the old generation of Enve 4.5 tubulars. The tape has worked so well for me that I have decided to go all in on tubular tech. I even bought three additional pairs of Veloflex tubulars on ProBikeKit. I also find the tape makes it even easier to mount tires than on clinchers (after practicing a couple of times).
Not sure if this has been said, but those who may be having problems may have purchased the wrong width tape for their rims. This tape makes me want to sell my other clincher wheelsets and just convert everything to tubulars. With the prices on Veloflex tubes on PBK at $55 per tire if you buy three (at least when I purchased them a few weeks ago), and the durability, longevity, and feel of Veloflex tubulars, I don't think I'll go back to clinchers on my main bike.
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#68
08-24-2016, 07:26 PM
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I've rolled a tubular on a narrow rim with Carogna tape during a crit. The rim wasn't perfectly clean and the design of the rim didn't match the tubular well (less contact area). On wider, cleaner, and/or better-designed rims, not a problem with the proper tape (so far).
On carbon rims, I've just decided to keep gluing the ones previously glued and tape the new ones. Even with the remover, it can be a chore to get them completely clean.
__________________
My egocentric bike blog
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#70
08-24-2016, 09:53 PM
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I started with brand new Bontrager Aeolus tubulars and brand new Vittoria CXIII tires. I followed directions assiduously and when the tape failed, I communicated with the US ditributor and the owner of Effeto Mariposa. (They were very nice and helpful.) Then I tried twice more -- in fact, the third time, a professional mechanic with years of experience on the pro tour did it in his house, not mine (i.e., the environment was different). The three tries spanned many months, so the weather was different too.
Total failure all three times. The tire rolled off so easily that it took virtually no finger pressure to do it. Since then, I know one person who has had perfect success and two experiences through the LBS that have been total failures. There is something really, really weird going on with this product. I have no clue what it is and neither did the distributor nor the owner. I really wanted to it to work and I really wish it had every time I have to deal with Mastik. Unfortunately, it was miles away from being minimally safe in my experiences.
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#71
08-24-2016, 10:38 PM
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odd, it was flawless for the wheelset i used it on.
now, i just can't figure out how to install a used tire with new tape without making it impossible to peel the purple tape cover out from between the rim and the tire. (the used tire has leftover glue on it from its previous tape job..i ruined the rim) Last edited by seanile; 08-24-2016 at 10:40 PM.
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#72
08-25-2016, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
I had a similar experience with this crap, major fail, like using no glue at all. https://www.vittoria.com/accessories...y/magic-mastik Except no email was ever answered.. Why I like and continue to use Panaracer..good enough for Keirin, good enough for me.
__________________
Chisholm's Custom Wheels Qui Si Parla Campagnolo
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#73
08-25-2016, 10:26 AM
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I've glued up a number of road wheels with EMC and used it for training purposes. That's not an application that tests the glue joint like racing a crit will do, and have had one bad wheel out of ten. Still have no idea why it happened, and I saved the scrap leftover of the roll and found it still wasn't working properly on another rim with another tire. However, I'd also say that for people who really want to use tape because their own gluing skills aren't first rate, it probably amounts to as good a gluing job for non-racing riders.
I'm ultimately in Tater's camp. Rim cement works really well and if you have the expertise to use it, there's nothing more reliable and versatile. For those who simply hate rim cement or don't have the skills with it (and for those who glue two or three tires a year and always end up with outdated rim cement that causes problems), then yeah, try EMC. Just always check your tires. I've had EMC fail immediately upon installation, and also had it fail after some use, and I've seen this pattern with other experienced users as well (as Tater just described from his own trials with it).
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#74
08-25-2016, 10:30 AM
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Another data point, I rolled my front tire in my last race of last season, but it was an absolutely disastrous crash that I was surprised didn't crack my front rim (I was bunny hopping a ~12" tall log but a zoned out lapped rider stepped directly into my line, and my attempt to avoid him led to the front wheel smashing into the log at full speed, sideways, sending me over the bars and my bike flying). I'm going to be trying tubeless this year, though.
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#75
08-30-2016, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
me, I've abandoned the EMC stuff and have taken up slinging glue and CX tape. rather go through that and be more confident that it won't roll than to save myself the work and be questioning the bond.
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| Tags |
| carogna, tubular tape |
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