ot: is it too controversial to discuss Daytona crash?

[Bruce K]

If I was a betting man, I would say he won’t drive Las Vegas (next race), but maybe the one after a f the doctors clear him.

These guys are race car drivers. It’s in their blood, it’s what they do.

BK

[buddybikes]

He had a bad week, wife announced separation few days earlier: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...202438213.html

Originally Posted by azrider

Phew is right......glad he's able to take this picture

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by eddief

and having your husband/dad doing that for a living. glorious when you are alive, not so when you are dead or maimed. the choices we make.

Indeed but you can ‘what if’ your way out of anything, even doing those things that you love.
“Pay yer money, take yer chances”...you can get maimed or killed driving to work, even on a bike.

[BobO]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

people say the car of tomorrow ruined cup racing, and they may be right. But the whole reason is the previous cars weren't very safe. Go watch the Waltrip crash at Brisol. People joke about it because he lived, but look at the car and try to figure out how that is possible
https://youtu.be/uzxcuV5rmA4

There are a couple of things I'd like to note before we say that the prior cars weren't very safe. The first is that Michael's Bristol crash was in 1990, there were massive safety innovations that took place between then and 2007 when the COT was introduced. Also, that car went from 100+MPH to zero in "right effing now" due to a flawed track design that has since been corrected. The deceleration and structural loads in the chassis had to be absolutely astounding. In actuality, it's likely that the car coming apart as it did saved his life by dissipating energy. That and a lot of luck. There were many horrific crashes between 1900 and 2007 that the driver's simply walked away from. Teams began to use some very talented engineers and the growing technologies of digital prototyping and FEA. So, the COT didn't magically take NASCAR from bad cars to the miracle life saver, there was an evolution.

The next thing, and somebody noted Dale Earnhardt, is that the vast majority of the serious injuries / fatalities in NASCAR weren't really the failures of the chassis. In DE's case there were multiple failings stemming mostly from his own trust in substandard personal safety gear. i.e. open face helmet, archaic seat with little head restraint, a personal and un-approved means of mounting the safety harnesses, and the lack of a HANS device. That last item is a big one in the entire racing world. After DE's death nearly everybody recognized that basal skull fractures had become the primary cause of deaths in racecars.

All of that being said, is the COT generation safer,... probably. There are a myriad of factors that come into play but the evolution of the car due to further input didn't stop. Moving the driver more inboard and raising the height of the greenhouse are certainly good moves for driver safety. I know that they've altered small areas of gusseting in the last 13 years due to safety concerns. I hope, and given their track record, I expect that NASCAR will mandate some added bracing to the halo area because of this incident. Most racers are good at learning from failures.

[Bruce K]

I believe NASCAR is moving towards a monocoque driver protection cell as part of a new design chassis coming in the near future

BK

[BobO]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I believe NASCAR is moving towards a monocoque driver protection cell as part of a new design chassis coming in the near future

BK

The seat itself has more or less become that. That item is probably the largest innovation of the last 10 years. I remember when there was a rash of broken femurs and I think it was Randy LaJoie who came up with the seat extension that solved the issue. The seats used to end mid-thigh.

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by Bruce K

I believe NASCAR is moving towards a monocoque driver protection cell as part of a new design chassis coming in the near future



BK

The entire frame of the car is one big roll cage. As mentioned, the seat, Hans Device, etc add the the overall safety. It's night and day from the '70's and '80's stock cars. While the racing is like watching paint dry, the tech is pretty cool.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

The entire frame of the car is one big roll cage. As mentioned, the seat, Hans Device, etc add the the overall safety. It's night and day from the '70's and '80's stock cars. While the racing is like watching paint dry, the tech is pretty cool.

Agree. I get a kick out of the 'fans' goin' nutz and devolving into shouting and pushing and punching matches---'chevy! vs ford! vs mopar! and even vs toyota!!(huh?)..pushing matches in the infield as the race goes straight/turn left/go straight/turn left. The ONLY thing chevyfordmopartoyota is the emblem on the hood and the place the sponsorhip $ comes from.

[cfox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Agree. I get a kick out of the 'fans' goin' nutz and devolving into shouting and pushing and punching matches---'chevy! vs ford! vs mopar! and even vs toyota!!(huh?)..pushing matches in the infield as the race goes straight/turn left/go straight/turn left. The ONLY thing chevyfordmopartoyota is the emblem on the hood and the place the sponsorhip $ comes from.

Only thing? How about the engine? Chevy, Ford, and Toyota provide their own engine blocks, heads, and intake manifolds to the various NASCAR engine builders. It's not just hood ornaments that differentiate the cars. There are big performance differences between the engines; Toyota won 19 races last year, Chevy won 7. Chevrolet teams have known for 3 seasons now that they are underpowered. Looks like the have made up some ground for 2020.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by cfox

Only thing? How about the engine? Chevy, Ford, and Toyota provide their own engine blocks, heads, and intake manifolds to the various NASCAR engine builders. It's not just hood ornaments that differentiate the cars. There are big performance differences between the engines; Toyota won 19 races last year, Chevy won 7. Chevrolet teams have known for 3 seasons now that they are underpowered. Looks like the have made up some ground for 2020.

Yeah, but it's still a big joke. Toyota is now racing the "Supra" The real Supra is powered by BMW's last remaining Inline 6 cylinder engine. What's the Nascar Supra running??

I won't even go into the fact the real Supra is really just a BMW Z4 with the engine detuned a bit....

Nothing Toyota there at all, LOL!

[zap]

edit

Originally Posted by jamesdak

What's the Nascar Supra running??

Nothing Toyota there at all, LOL!

Toyota is using a V8 based on their PU truck engine.

Like every racing series there are rules and regulations to follow. Indy car uses one standard chassis...Formula E as well. These are meant to keep costs in check......many times money does buy speed.....Formula 1 for example.

[PacNW2Ford]

Originally Posted by zap

edit



Toyota is using a V8 based on their PU truck engine.

Like every racing series there are rules and regulations to follow. Indy car uses one standard chassis...Formula E as well. These are meant to keep costs in check......many times money does buy speed.....Formula 1 for example.

The NASCAR V-8s are not even close to any production engine, especially Toyota’s as Toyota has never built an OHV pushrod V-8 for a road vehicle. But there’s nothing wrong with this. The NASCAR V-8 is a unique purpose-built racing engine that can rev to 10,000 RPM and last for 500 miles. Not at the same time, the restrictor plate motors don’t rev as high. Their blocks are cast in the same foundries as Formula 1 blocks and the metallurgy in their valve springs is cutting edge. F1 engines used air springs and likely still do. People like to mock throttle body fuel injection and such, but they are still highly engineered motors. It will be interesting to see what the new engine regulations bring as far as architecture and power. I would like to see how Daytona would drive with say 18 degrees of banking and unrestricted say, 550 hp engines.

[RKW]

Moderately relavant anecdote.

I used to work as an engineer for a LMP2 manufacturer.

For ****s and giggles at a Daytona test, we had the engine manufacturer's rep load the non-Homologated high-boost tune, which is what lots of the rich-guys that buy LMP2 cars run when they show up to a track day.

We ripped the tire off the bead with the lateral g going through Nascar 4. With banking. And a cubic ****load of downforce.

Call NASCAR what you will, but don't belittle the engineering. If the same incident happened in any other form of motorsports, we would be commenting about watching someone die on live TV. FIA Sportscars (FIA GT3, GTE, what have you) are not homologated for a secondary impact, much less one like what we witnessed on Monday.

[Hellgate]

The only NASCAR races I enjoy are the road courses. I find it highly entertaining watching those big pig cars, and turn left racers try to make it through a proper chicane.

[Bruce K]

A lot of those NASCAR boys are highly underrated as drivers due to the “they only turn left” mentality. Those that have tried endurance racing and Indy car have proven to be quite proficient behind the wheel of any race car.

I believe the road circuit cup cars (they are very different from speedway and short track versions) match lap times with other “touring cars” like Trans-Am so not exactly”big pigs”.

I forget which cup driver spent the off season racing in Australia and Asia but he did quite well.

BK