2020 paceline weightloss challenge

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by weisan

Matt pal, thanks for starting this.

Do you save a "backup"?

What happens if someone accidentally erase or fat-finger or select all....?

Yeah, we can revert to an earlier version, Google is tracking our every key stroke. Hopefully though, it doesn't come to that.


In other news, I had to add more columns to accommodate the interest. THis is great, but the graph will need some reworking on my part.

good luck to everyone.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

A few tips from a PT who has had several fat loss clients over the years:

...
3) Avoid the office snacks. They're one of the biggest culprits, by far.

And the home snacks. Like the ice cream, cookies and cookie dough.

Originally Posted by marciero

It does show a four-pound difference with my scale in two different spots on the floor so will have to be consistent...

or.... maybe there is a disturbance in the gravitational field in your bathroom. Better have NASA come take a look.

[JasonF]

Thanks for starting this!

My weight goal isn't huge (lose 8%) but the tougher challenge will be the goal to preserve muscle mass and avoid getting "skinny fat". Now that I'm 50 it seems that my body wants to hold onto fat stores and is more than happy to cannibalize muscle mass to move the scale's needle lower. That's no bueno.

So I'll be tracking the ratio to lean body mass (LBM) to fat mass. Ideally, I'd want to see fat mass trend lower to a greater degree than LBM. In the end, I don't really care what my body weight is, only that my BF goes from around 16% to 10-12%, without looking like I starved myself to get there.

My workouts will consist entirely of compound movements (squat, deadlift, bench, OHP, BB row) on a 3-day split with chins/dips thrown in if I have gas left in the tank.

Cardio will maybe be 2-3 HIIT workouts a week on my Concept2 Bikeerg.

This being L.A., I'm having "Fitness Kitchen" deliver lunch & dinner 5 days a week.

I have travel planned in Feb & March so I hope it doesn't derail things.

[Dekonick]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

XX,

What is a good strategy to determine how much water to drink or if we are properly hydrated?

it seems obvious to me that if one day i take a long spin class and sweat out buckets i need to intake more water than a day i do resistance training and walk a lot but never break a sweat?

i personally also think i'm lacking in the hydration department, looking for some easy rule of thumb to make sure i stay on top of hydration?

Short of looking at your creatinine and BUN to get a 'real' number, take a piss. Your piss should be light yellow to clear, and you should clear about 1-2ml/kg hour. Less than that and you are probably dehydrated. Darker urine usually means more concentrated urine - your body is trying to save water. It can mean other things, but we won't get into that.

[Dekonick]

BUT if you want to burn fat, you need more water for hydrolysis. Drink more - but absolutely make sure you are urinating light yellow to clear, and at least 1-2ml/kg/hour. It is pretty cool how it all works.

Don't hate... embrace the pain...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric...conitate_2.svg

[MattTuck]

Another time that I was successful shedding some pounds, I was surprised that my LBM also dropped quite a bit as I lost a bit of fat. I was using a body fat monitoring scale, so we're not talking a super high precision device. But over time, I want to say that I lost about 20 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of non-fat weight.

The real question is where that non-fat weight actually was. If it was in fluid/tissues that were there to support the fat, then losing it was probably not bad. If it was truly lean muscle, then that is probably not good.

Strength training is probably the way to defend against that.

Originally Posted by JasonF

Thanks for starting this!

My weight goal isn't huge (lose 8%) but the tougher challenge will be the goal to preserve muscle mass and avoid getting "skinny fat". Now that I'm 50 it seems that my body wants to hold onto fat stores and is more than happy to cannibalize muscle mass to move the scale's needle lower. That's no bueno.

So I'll be tracking the ratio to lean body mass (LBM) to fat mass. Ideally, I'd want to see fat mass trend lower to a greater degree than LBM. In the end, I don't really care what my body weight is, only that my BF goes from around 16% to 10-12%, without looking like I starved myself to get there.

My workouts will consist entirely of compound movements (squat, deadlift, bench, OHP, BB row) on a 3-day split with chins/dips thrown in if I have gas left in the tank.

Cardio will maybe be 2-3 HIIT workouts a week on my Concept2 Bikeerg.

This being L.A., I'm having "Fitness Kitchen" deliver lunch & dinner 5 days a week.

I have travel planned in Feb & March so I hope it doesn't derail things.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Another time that I was successful shedding some pounds, I was surprised that my LBM also dropped quite a bit as I lost a bit of fat. I was using a body fat monitoring scale, so we're not talking a super high precision device. But over time, I want to say that I lost about 20 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of non-fat weight.

The real question is where that non-fat weight actually was. If it was in fluid/tissues that were there to support the fat, then losing it was probably not bad. If it was truly lean muscle, then that is probably not good.

Strength training is probably the way to defend against that.

Yes, but that's not the only (or most important) reason for strength training. We all lose bone density as we age, and resistance (strength) training is one of the best ways to mitigate that loss. It doesn't have to be a huge amount of weight either. I'm a big proponent of body weight exercises.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Another time that I was successful shedding some pounds, I was surprised that my LBM also dropped quite a bit as I lost a bit of fat. I was using a body fat monitoring scale, so we're not talking a super high precision device. But over time, I want to say that I lost about 20 pounds of fat and 10 pounds of non-fat weight.

Strength training is probably the way to defend against that.

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Yes, but that's not the only (or most important) reason for strength training. We all lose bone density as we age, and resistance (strength) training is one of the best ways to mitigate that loss. It doesn't have to be a huge amount of weight either. I'm a big proponent of body weight exercises.

So true. I use a combination of a tape measure that's made specifically for measuring waist circumference in addition to fat calipers. Scales are notoriously inaccurate but still give a good measure of trend if used the same way consistently (i.e., time of day, etc....)

Any resistance training that recruits more than one muscle group per movement is a good compound exercise. Pullups, dips, chins, push-ups, lunges, etc...are all good compound bodyweight movements. Add a barbell and do squats, deads, etc...and it's even better.

Here's a good link that describes how to avoid getting "skinny fat".

https://legionathletics.com/skinny-fat/

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by JasonF

So true. I use a combination of a tape measure that's made specifically for measuring waist circumference in addition to fat calipers. Scales are notoriously inaccurate but still give a good measure of trend if used the same way consistently (i.e., time of day, etc....)

Any resistance training that recruits more than one muscle group per movement is a good compound exercise. Pullups, dips, chins, push-ups, lunges, etc...are all good compound bodyweight movements. Add a barbell and do squats, deads, etc...and it's even better.

Here's a good link that describes how to avoid getting "skinny fat".

https://legionathletics.com/skinny-fat/

Hey Jason -

Just clicked on the link. Interesting. But as a CPT, I do have some comments.

From the link:

"Skinny fat describes a condition in which someone is a relatively normal weight, but has very little muscle and too much body fat.

The three primary causes of skinny fatness are severe calorie restriction, excessive cardio, and a lack of heavy, compound weightlifting.
The solution to skinny fatness is the opposite: moderately reduce your calorie intake, do just enough cardio to keep burning fat, and do lots of heavy, compound weightlifting."

1) I agree with the severe calories restriction. A sure-fire recipe for disaster. Pun intended. That will never work. Our bodies are just not wired for long-term negation.

2) I have a big problem with the cardio component. I see this a lot from various sources (Mark Sisson of the "Primal Blueprint" is a prime example) and I don't buy it. Primarily because it equates movement solely for aesthetics. I've never done a century ride (or even a 10 mile ride) for fat loss. I've done it for the sheer pleasure of cycling. Under the guidelines espoused by the article, that type of riding is verboten. Again, I don't buy it. Cardiovascular endurance is one of the surest barometers of health and fitness. And cycling is fun.

3) Too many people get injured by using an inappropriate amount of weight. If your core muscles can't sustain a one minute plank with good form, you should not be messing around with a bunch of weight.

Lastly, and this is a big one, the example of a "good physique" (the really ripped dude) is utter bull****. That's completely unrealistic for most people. I understand the marketing side of things, but for a healthy and attainable goal, that is pure nonsense.

Respectfully,

XX

[unterhausen]

My best weight loss was losing a half pound a week for a couple of years. I did that by swimming every day. I find that restricting my diet doesn't work that well, but cutting out high calorie snacks is essential. A lot of that is habit.

I think that article pointed people vaguely in the right direction, but I don't see anything wrong with a reasonable cardio routine. Our goal here is 100% aimed at cardio. A lot of people in the health business don't understand the importance of recovery. You still hear people say that you should always put out maximal effort every workout. That's just a recipe for failure. The cynical side in me thinks that people want to hear that they shouldn't do cardio and should do weights.

[KJMUNC]

I'm in....I lost 35lbs last year by going keto for 4mo but wound up putting 15 back on after going off it and eating/drinking excessively during Q4 (something I always seem to do).

good motivation for the new year!

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Hey Jason -

Just clicked on the link. Interesting. But as a CPT, I do have some comments.


1) I agree with the severe calories restriction. A sure-fire recipe for disaster. Pun intended. That will never work. Our bodies are just not wired for long-term negation.

2) I have a big problem with the cardio component. I see this a lot from various sources (Mark Sisson of the "Primal Blueprint" is a prime example) and I don't buy it. Primarily because it equates movement solely for aesthetics. I've never done a century ride (or even a 10 mile ride) for fat loss. I've done it for the sheer pleasure of cycling. Under the guidelines espoused by the article, that type of riding is verboten. Again, I don't buy it. Cardiovascular endurance is one of the surest barometers of health and fitness. And cycling is fun.

3) Too many people get injured by using an inappropriate amount of weight. If your core muscles can't sustain a one minute plank with good form, you should not be messing around with a bunch of weight.

Lastly, and this is a big one, the example of a "good physique" (the really ripped dude) is utter bull****. That's completely unrealistic for most people. I understand the marketing side of things, but for a healthy and attainable goal, that is pure nonsense.

Respectfully,

XX

Thanks for the reply XX. As a CPT do you see a difference in your clients when they do LISS or HIIT if the goal is to build (or at least preserve) muscle mass? My goal for this PL challenge is to preserve what mass I have and so I'm trying to avoid going catabolic whenever possible.

Thanks, Jason

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by JasonF

Thanks for the reply XX. As a CPT do you see a difference in your clients when they do LISS or HIIT if the goal is to build (or at least preserve) muscle mass? My goal for this PL challenge is to preserve what mass I have and so I'm trying to avoid going catabolic whenever possible.

Thanks, Jason

Hey Jason -

Well, that's kind of a tough question, but I'll try to keep it simple. I think, ideally, that fitness should entail a combination of both "LISS" and "HIIT." The caveat is that most of my clients come from an athletic background. So, I'll up the ante on the HIIT training, as well doing proprioceptively challenging things like one-legged balancing on a BOSU Ball while throwing and catching a football.

For the vast majority of people (unlike many members of this Forum) I don't think HIIT training works. And the reason why is simple: it's too unpleasant. If you come from a largely sedentary background HIIT training won't be sustainable.

The regimen you alluded to earlier seems great for your goals. I'd add some flexibility exercises (maybe you do) as well balance drills. But I always tell my clients that cardio and flexibility "never lie." Any fitness regimen (including one oriented toward fat loss) should include those two elements.

Also, FWIW, I hardly ever use large amounts of weight. You can get a hell of a workout using stability balls, medicine balls, and body weight exercises where you're inherently unstable and forced to recruit more muscle groups.

[JasonF]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Hey Jason -


Also, FWIW, I hardly ever use large amounts of weight. You can get a hell of a workout using stability balls, medicine balls, and body weight exercises where you're inherently unstable and forced to recruit more muscle groups.

XX, thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very cool pics, and as I get older stability and flexibility get more and more important. Your clients are lucky to have you as their trainer.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by JasonF

XX, thanks for the thoughtful reply! Very cool pics, and as I get older stability and flexibility get more and more important. Your clients are lucky to have you as their trainer.

Hey Jason, thanks for the kind words. Really appreciated.

As an addendum, I just double checked Sisson's book, and he warns against "chronic cardio," which, judging by the responses in the bike mileage thread, many of the members are in danger of doing. His primary reason is that it will lead to inhaling high GI foods for an expedient fuel source, and make you fat.

The author you provided a link to warns against excessive cardio, because it will make you skinny (or catabolic) and fat. It gets confusing, right?

My best advice is to incorporate all the fitness elements (cardio, strength training, flexibility, and balance) into a regimen. But that won't sell a lot of books.