A cautionary tale - along with some bad customer service

morrisericd · #1 09-01-2020, 06:17 AM

I was preparing for a ride on Sunday. Put my bike in the stand and pumped up the tires to 85 psi. Enve 3.4 SES Disc with King hubs, built by Enve with relatively new Schwalbe Pro One Tubeless tires. I had been experiencing a very slow (2-3 days to very low) leak over the last bunch of weeks, but thought it was an issue with my tubeless valve which seemed to be leaking.

I bent down to put my shoes on and heard a tick, tick, ticking sound (like tapping on the rim with a screwdriver), then boom! I thought my tire blew off the rim. Nope - total carbon failure. Blew out the entire side of the rim. Can you imagine if this had happened while I was riding? It was the rear wheel, but still!

So - I swapped wheels and went for that ride thinking to myself that I would call Enve in the morning and all would be well. Great customer service and all.

Side note - this bike was built up for a marketing guy at Enve named Colby from Argonaut and was featured in some photo shoots. I bought it from him maybe two years ago.

The warranty guy I talked to at Enve was nice enough, but it turns out that this sort of thing happens "a lot" according to him. Usually when someone installs a new tire and pumps it up too much to seat it. This wasn't the case with me.

A little investigating turns up some sites, including this one:

https://bikerumor.com/2019/03/12/env...-from-popping/

This is a known issue with carbon rims. Tubeless setups leak air into the carbon and with enough pressure, the rim blows. Some manufacturers drill tiny holes in their rims, Enve seems to have created a blow off valve (which mine did not have).

So - recourse. Enve wants to charge me $740 for a new rim and rebuild. I'm pissed. This really is something that they should take care of, the liability alone I would think would have them handing out rebuilds and begging mercy. I tried getting in touch with the guy I bought them from - no dice. Suggestions?

Check your tubeless setups. Slow leak? Better check twice! Don't let this happen to you!

mjb266 · #2 09-01-2020, 06:27 AM

Wow. Never even considered the possibility that the whole rim was a pressure chamber.

jpw · #3 09-01-2020, 06:29 AM

Wow! It's not even a rim brake wheel where heat has exceeded the resin's operating temperature.

I don't ride carbon. I don't trust the material or the way manufacturers apply it.

One of these days there's going to be a big class action lawsuit against one of these carbon bicycle and components companies.

merckxman · #4 09-01-2020, 06:35 AM

Yikes!

AngryScientist · #5 09-01-2020, 06:33 AM

holy moly!

that's crazy right there.

when i first opened this thread, and looked at the photos, my mind immediately told me you overcooked the brake track with rim brakes, and then i read the story.

i have noticed some of the tubeless rims i own and use, including my alloy eastons have holes drilled into the rim fairing portion, presumably to mitigate this issue. i would have guessed that enough pressure would be bled off through the nipple holes, but apparently not correct.

that is some serious garbage customer service from ENVE.

i have always believed that enve had an early advantage in the carbon rim game, and even maintained a small advantage with their brake track technology, but that has long been met and surpassed by other carbon rim manufacturers, and now enve is left as just the overpriced cow in the room IMO - and especially with disc brakes, where an excellent brake track is no longer necessary.

i have to wonder if disc only wheels are not built as robustly as rim brake models since there are no braking forces/heat to deal with on disc models?

anyway, thanks for sharing this, as my main road bike is on carbon tubeless wheels, i'll take a look at them this afternoon to see how they may deal with excess pressure.

in any event, this totally turns me off to enve. they should have taken care of you, and apologized profusely for making garbage rims, and thanking the cycling gods you didnt kill yourself on those.

R3awak3n · #6 09-01-2020, 06:38 AM

glad it did not happen during the ride so consider yourself lucky.

Enve CS is know not to be great... you would think you are paying crazy money for their wheels and forks and would have better CS

oldpotatoe · #7 09-01-2020, 06:38 AM

Yee gads..pretty interesting the guy said the below then essentially accused you of causing it when it's obvious their design SUX..
Not a YUGE fan of ENVE.

Quote:

The warranty guy I talked to at Enve was nice enough, but it turns out that this sort of thing happens "a lot" according to him. Usually when someone installs a new tire and pumps it up too much to seat it. This wasn't the case with me.

soulspinner · #8 09-01-2020, 06:43 AM

Glad you are OK and not injured while riding. Not real clever to admit a design flaw and basically say its on you to any degree.

Veloo · #9 09-01-2020, 06:49 AM

One thing to just read this.
When you do log in and see the pics - HOLY SH**!!!!!!!!

mdeth1313 · #10 09-01-2020, 06:49 AM

Their customer service has been pretty crappy for years. I had my own (bad) experience with them and stopped using their stuff quite some time ago. In this case it looks like you'd get better customer service from a farsport or lightbicycle.

Davist · #11 09-01-2020, 07:29 AM

wow! glad you weren't hurt, that looks awful. With ENVE's track record lately, "tiregate" and now this, I would think they'd be (at least) be willing to be cooperative with repair/replace. Or maybe ship everyone who's on the warranty list a couple of those pressure relief valve nuts...

Blown Reek · #12 09-01-2020, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soulspinner

Glad you are OK and not injured while riding. Not real clever to admit a design flaw and basically say its on you to any degree.

If you're going to place blame, at least place it where it's due.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bikerumor

Because the problem isn’t specific to their rims. Actually, it’s not a problem with any brands’ rims per se, it’s all about the set up.

AngryScientist · #13 09-01-2020, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

If you're going to place blame, at least place it where it's due.

but that's not true.

it sounds like it's a known issue that pressure may bleed into the fairing area, and there are design fixes in place to deal with this. pressure bleed holes or a blow off nut have been used elsewhere, the OP's wheels had no method of dealing with pressure in the fairing other than blowing up.

jpw · #14 09-01-2020, 07:03 AM

So can good come of this?

Who makes a good rim and has good CS? Time to shun the ****ty brands.

ChristianWong · #15 09-01-2020, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpw

So can good come of this?

Who makes a good rim and has good CS? Time to shun the ****ty brands.

Is it really fair to say Enve has poor customer service because they didn't honour a warranty on a wheelset the OP purchased second hand? I'd say what they're offering him in terms of a rim replacement is about par for the course.

Sucks, for sure. But this is why I won't buy used carbon. Enve basically has a 'no questions asked' warranty for original owners which would certainly come in handy here.

Glad you're okay, OP. A good cautionary tale, if nothing else.