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#1
07-31-2019, 09:24 PM
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Campagnolo Chorus 12 Speed "Sub-Compact"--Jaegher Test Mule
So I'm not sure this warrants an entire thread, but here goes. I ordered in a Chorus 12 speed mechanical rim brake group in order to give the 12 speed/sub-compact set up a try. Campy released the Chorus groups recently and they offered a sub-compact setup with a 48/32 crankset and an 11-32 cassette. In addition, you can order an extra set of three bigger cogs for the cassette that gives you an 11-34. (So when desired, you just pop in the three bigger cogs and you have even lower gearing.)
My blue Jaegher is a good candidate. It spent the last winter on the Wahoo trainer and needed a good overhaul anyway, so I spent part of the last days watching the TdF and changing over from Campy 11 SR to the new Chorus 12. Today I took my first ride and initial indications are very good. [IMG]  [/IMG]I'm pretty ecumenical when it comes to gearing and I have bikes with 50/34, 52/36 and 53/39. 48/32, however, is LOW, but I found I could adapt pretty easily. The lower range, with the 32-32 low  was pretty cool for this old guy. Cruising in the 48 ring in the middle of the cassette worked just fine. I may wind up being a convert (and I know some of you are already there).This particular Jaegher climbs and descends beautifully and fits me just right. I have my hot s__t tubulars on it for this experiment because that's what I had that wasn't currently on another bike. I can see this setup working out as a "climbing" bike; even a European trip bike. [This one's a road bike, however, not the gravel setup that someone might use this gearing on--it's limited to tires smaller than about 25mm.] Installation was pretty straight forward for someone who knows Campy, though they have not released any info on the wrinkles necessary to install the sub-compact setup yet. The new 12 speed shifters have a more pronounced and sculpted shape that's really comfortable. Shifting action reminds me more of the 10 speed than the current 11 speed (of which I have many). Note the curvature: [IMG]  [/IMG]I'll report back when I have some more data points, but kudos to Campag so far. Tim 
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#2
07-31-2019, 09:27 PM
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Mods, if you can downsize my photos, I'd appreciate it! BTW, the Chorus calipers weren't in yet, so I cleared with my mechanic guru that the older SR calipers would work and they were perfect today on the first ride. Thanks, Tim
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#3
08-01-2019, 01:06 AM
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Good info, thanks!
I’m extremely interested in the 48-32 11/29 combo as it looks like you can pretty much have single tooth jumps from 11-17 on the big then either drop into the larger gaps or switch to the little and have more single tooth changes until you get into real climbing situations. It also has a larger overall gear range than my old Ultegra 6500 9-Speed triple (52-42-30) with a 12/27. I felt like I could climb walls on that thing.
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#4
08-01-2019, 02:34 AM
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Tim,
This is great! Thanks for the mini review. These old legs will probably follow suit at some point!
__________________
©2004 The Elefantino Corp. All rights reserved.
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#5
08-01-2019, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
I love the review thank you! I am also v eager to try it on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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#6
08-01-2019, 07:08 AM
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Thanks all.
Some tech factoids: 1. If you want to go this route, be sure to consider whether the smaller chainrings will be compatible with whatever FD mount you may have. The Jaegher has a brazed on fitting and I had to . . . modify it a bit with a file (a few mm) in order for the FD not to be too high above the chainrings. I seem to have gotten it just right because the FD shifts very well. I need to futz around with the fine tuning a bit more, but that's pretty normal. The 12 speed FDs operate a bit differently from the 11 speed FDs, btw, with the ability to trim the FD inward with one click when you're in the bigger cogs in back, and I don't have that down perfectly yet. If you have a band around the seat tube for your FD you'd be golden. 2. Chain length on the mechanical 12 speed for Record and Super Record is governed by chain stay length. Neither Record nor SR have the 48/32 combo, however, and it may come out that you need to shorten a new chain by another link in order for the RD to have enough tension. They do not mention any of this yet in Campy's manuals, btw, so I'm flying a little blind and using the R and SR chain length. But in the small/small combination the RD it's seemingly impossible to get the RD adjusted so that the cage very slightly points down, i.e., with the rear idler wheel lower than the top one. I may be missing something so will be fine tuning this. More to come, I'm sure. Tim
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#7
08-01-2019, 07:20 AM
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Nice.
Smaller chainrings are catching on like wildfire. i have a bunch of bikes set-up 46/30 and 48/34 rigt now. as you saw, it allows me to cruise in the big ring 90% of the time in the middle of the cassette. i never used the smaller end of the cassette when i was using a 50 or 52 tooth ring, so this just opens up the range for me. i have never wanted more speed than the 46/11 gives me either. good looking bike Tim!
__________________
http://less-than-epic.blogspot.com/
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#8
08-01-2019, 07:33 AM
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What cadence is everyone spinning with this setup? What speed do you cruise?
I've got a 50/34 11-34T 11 speed setup on my Vitus and it seems like on the flats I'm always in the smallest 3 cogs, don't like that. Seems this would be worse with a road bike and those in the middle of the cassette must be turning crazy high cadences or something. Just curious.
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#9
08-01-2019, 07:34 AM
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Thanks Nick. I'm beginning to see the allure . . . .
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#10
08-01-2019, 07:55 AM
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jamesdak: I tend to cruise in the 15-18 mph range depending on terrain, being way slower on climbs, of course. My average cadence tends to be in the 75-85 range. I keep a pretty steady cadence and only use my top few gears on fast descents. I would never, ever cruise at my typical speed in a gear as high as 50/11, 12, 13, or 14. That would feel way bogged down for me. But I'm an old school rider who wears out small chainrings 3/1 over large chainrings!
So a 48/17 or 16 seems like a nice gear. 48/17 = 76.2 inch gear, btw. For me that's a perfect cruising gear at the higher end of my cruise range (even a little above), and I'd prefer a 48/18! HTH for comparison purposes. Tim
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#11
08-01-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
how fast would you say you typically cruise at on the flats? below are speeds in the 50x12 combo for cadences (ever 10 rpm, starting at 30 to 130), so if your typical cadence is 80, you're cruising at 26 mph? Quote:
__________________
http://less-than-epic.blogspot.com/
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#12
08-01-2019, 08:14 AM
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Nick, that was my reaction, too. jamesdak you are one quick dude!
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#13
08-01-2019, 08:15 AM
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LA couple of answers about the chorus 12 group. I've now got two bikes with the 48/32 and 11-34. The chain length can be set using the little/little method. Make the chain as long as possible, but it must not hang loose in the little/little combination.
Campy has correct instructions for a 50/34, but not the 48/32. Since the little ring is 2T smaller - that takes 1/2 inch less chain. A 54 inch chain and 406mm stays will easily wrap the big/big. If you have stays that approach the 417mm mentioned in the instructions, cut the chain to 55 inches first and see if it fails to swing the lower pulley down a bit when the ends of the chain are brought together. I've got the new brakes on one bike. They're much the same as previous chorus, but without aluminum fasteners. Your bike will weigh 4-5 ounces more than chorus 11. As for cadence, 48 is only 4 percent lower than a 50, which is far less than 1 sprocket smaller. It's not hard to do 35 mph in the 48/11. The new cables really do improve the shifting to smaller sprockets, where cable friction can cause problems. The FD will need to be lowered about 4mm. I was lucky that the braze-on mount on my Colnago had the extra length. Last edited by Dave; 08-01-2019 at 08:55 AM.
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#14
08-01-2019, 08:21 AM
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Thanks, Dave. Makes perfect sense given my experience so far. Tim
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#15
08-01-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
 I do cruise on the flats in the 19-21 mph range alot through my rides with a normal top end of 24 if I'm not doing speed work. This is on my daily 25 mile route where I'll finish with a 19 mph avg if working honestly, higher if really going for it, and in the 18's if a chill day. Of course throw in the winds and all bets are off. My cadence is typically in the 80-90 range from years past. I really haven't been paying much attention to it this year as I work back into shape.
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