OT: Sticker shock.... spark plugs?!

[dddd]

I bought the double-irridium plugs from Rock Auto, SKP brand out of China.

All I can say is that the 2010 Toyota then passed smog prior to my selling it, and that the plugs were only around $4.50 each as I recall.

I've pulled plugs from a Ford Expedition 5.4L which is a difficult extraction, so better plugs make sense in terms of their service interval.

Plugs either spark or they don't, and the main variables are temperature, voltage rise (as realized at the electrodes), compression pressure, and plug gap.
Setting the plug gaps on the narrow end of spec (or narrower) not only allows them to go on sparking for a longer service interval, but also extends the life of the secondary windings in the coils.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by bfd

Plastic oil pan?! Yow, you should look into whether your engine ever came with a metal pan. If so, perhaps the next time you could put that in when this "new" one needs replacing. I know, Good Luck!

Many VWs come stock with plastic pans now. There is an aftermarket metal option for my engine but my mech. won't install customer supplied parts.

[Ken Robb]

I think the German Government has very strict requirements for recycling. I don't know the details or whether plastics have an easier path to satisfying them than metals do but BMW for sure has been making parts from plastic that would have been made of metal. Some of these plastic (if not all of them)parts failed much sooner than the metal parts they replaced. BMW water pumps were notorious for this and aftermarket replacements are available but you must have them installed by other than a BMW dealer.

I might just let a leaky plastic oil pan pollute my garage floor.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by batman1425

Many VWs come stock with plastic pans now. There is an aftermarket metal option for my engine but my mech. won't install customer supplied parts.

OK, there it is. I would ask your mechanic to get the aftermarket metal pan and put it in. Yes, you may pay a little more, but there is probably a retail price so it shouldn't be exorbitant.

Alternatively, find another mechanic. Yes, good, honest mechanics are not easy to find, but running around with a plastic oil pan that warps out and leaks every couple of years isn't being honest if there's an aftermarket solution that will not only solve the problem but save you money in the long run.

Good Luck!

[Peter B]

Decent battery for my old Tacoma was just shy of $200 from NAPA a few weeks ago.

Last equivalent i bought was about $60.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by bfd

OK, there it is. I would ask your mechanic to get the aftermarket metal pan and put it in. Yes, you may pay a little more, but there is probably a retail price so it shouldn't be exorbitant.

Alternatively, find another mechanic. Yes, good, honest mechanics are not easy to find, but running around with a plastic oil pan that warps out and leaks every couple of years isn't being honest if there's an aftermarket solution that will not only solve the problem but save you money in the long run.

Good Luck!

If one can afford to not pollute, one should not pollute.

This is among the reasons I sold my 72 GMC.

[steelbikerider]

If I remember correctly, My first car, a 1973 Cutlass, needed 8 plugs, points, rotor and condenser every year or 12k, maybe $20. My 2018 Subaru had its 4 plugs replaced at 60k last year. Not even counting inflation, the current plugs at $10 each are much cheaper in the long run.

[cinema]

careful. i ended up with counterfeit toyota spark plugs. only buying from the dealer from now on. you can get deals if you purchase online and pick up at the dealer. still cheap compares to pretty much everything else on a car.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by steelbikerider

If I remember correctly, My first car, a 1973 Cutlass, needed 8 plugs, points and condenser every year or 12k, maybe $20. My 2018 Subaru had its 4 plugs replaced at 60k last year. Not even counting inflation, the current plugs at $10 each are much cheaper in the long run.

Just make sure you get good plugs. Many years ago a friend brought over a car to my house and asked me to tune it up. I replaced the plugs, points, condenser, and rotor. Couldn’t get it to start?! I did checked everything like three times and nothing worked?! He was mad and yelling at me!

Finally I put back in his old parts and Varoom, the car started right up! I asked him what kind of parts did you buy?! He bought the cheapest stuff from the old Grand Auto?! I’m like that stuff is junk! Nobody uses that crap…I told him take his crap and get out. Haven’t seen him since.

Moral story - get good OE or OEM parts! If you’re buying spark plugs look for brands like NGK, Denso, Bosch and a few others. But I think most ICE cars these days use iridium plugs, which can last 100k miles! But it has been a while as my Tesla doesn’t need this stuff…lol

Good Luck!

[steelbikerider]

Even brand name doesn't always work. Once did the annual tune-up, car died on the way to work. Hitched a ride, stopped by the garage for my local mechanic, George, told him what happened and where I left the car. He found the car, drove it around until it stopped, diagnosed it as a bad condenser, replaced it and left the car where he found it. I stopped by the garage after work, he told me where he left the car. so I paid him, found my car and finally made it home. At least I didn't have to pay any towing fees.

[froze]

Buy a vintage a vintage car and then you only have to buy copper plugs, which still cost less than $4 each. Some will argue that a copper plug won't last more than 12,000 miles, that was true when lead was used in the fuel, when they removed lead those plugs could see north of 25,000 miles easily. Then if you replaced the mechanical points with Pertronix electronic points, and replaced the stock coil with Pertronix Flamethrower coil those copper plugs could last 50,000 miles and probably longer. And you can change the plugs yourself very easily in older cars saving the cost of labor.

Thankfully you bought the plugs at a car parts store, had you gone to the dealer those exact same plugs would have cost you around $65 EACH! That's not including installation either.

One important note, it is wise to use the same brand, type, and temp rating plug that was put in new from the factory. Today engines are more exacting than they used to be, so engineers design the engines and then find out which plug will give it the best MPG. Yes, I know you could switch to a different brand of plug and probably won't notice any loss of MPG, but when the manufacturers use exact measuring guidelines, they do so for CAFE standards, so even if a certain plug saves only a 1/2 mpg, they're going to go with the plug that had better results. So if you want your engine to perform the way the factory designated it then use the exact plug, no matter what anyone will tell you, you won't find a plug that will perform better, the factory has already figured that out, any other plug will perform less, how much less is the question.

Even back in the vintage days of copper plug engines, certain brands of plugs worked better in certain engines, but they weren't quite as picky as they are today. But most people would use AC Delco plugs in high-performance GM engines because they worked better than other brands of plugs in a GM; a lot of people liked Autolite in regular performance engines because of all the plugs on the market at the time they lasted the longest, about double the life of any other plug back then. But like GM, Chrysler engines liked Champion plugs the best for their high-performance engines. So even back then some picky engines ran the best with certain brands of plugs, so it was wise to check the owner's manual.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Inflation from profiteering IS real. Hard to tell which one is happening for most things though. Wages are not really keeping pace. It’s tough out there for most folks.

FIFY...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-inflation-us/

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by steelbikerider

If I remember correctly, My first car, a 1973 Cutlass, needed 8 plugs, points, rotor and condenser every year or 12k, maybe $20. My 2018 Subaru had its 4 plugs replaced at 60k last year. Not even counting inflation, the current plugs at $10 each are much cheaper in the long run.

Yep, its amazing how long “tune up” parts go in modern cars.

[froze]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Yep, its amazing how long “tune up” parts go in modern cars.

Well if a person understood the older cars you can make the tuneup parts last a long time.

Sparkplugs got fouled back in the day due to 2 reasons, mostly lead in the fuel which was removed in 1999, the second thing was low voltage from the coil to the plug, I'll get back to that. But with the lead out standard copper plugs would last about 25,000 miles, and Autolite plugs lasted longer.

Then there was the points and condenser problem, but a product came out years ago and is still around today called Pertronix electronic ignition, the unit replaced the mechanical points and condenser, you simply removed the old ones and replaced it with the new one, the wiring was the same, just had to gap it which the gapping device came with the kit. After that, you never had to mess with points and condenser ever again.

Also from Pertronix you could buy their coil which puts out more voltage, and replace the old coil with the new, and now those cheap copper plugs could last at least 50,000 miles.

So the only things left to do on the car was to keep the carbs adjusted and cleaned, but without lead in the fuel the carbs stayed adjusted and cleaner a lot longer, and now with detergents in the fuel you could easily go 50,000 miles between cleaning the carb, and the rebuilding of a carb might be as long as 100,000 miles. The other thing you had to do was use a timing light to make sure the distributor timing was correct.

What all of this meant was that a car that was supposed to be tuned up every 12,000 miles is now able to extend that to at least 50,000. And due to the nature of how cars were built back then, changing plugs was extremely easy and quick, you could be done changing plugs in a V8 in 20 minutes. And then about every 12,000 the only thing you have to do is check the timing, if an adjustment had to be made then it would take about 10 minutes to set up the light and make the adjustment.

Even before the Pertronix and before the lead was taken out, a tuneup would only take about 30 to 45 minutes, and you could do it yourself, and most people did do it themselves. The tools to buy to do the work would cost you today about $200 which would include the timing light, a vacuum gauge, a dwell meter, screwdriver, and ignition wrenches. But if you were going to buy a dwell meter you might as well get a multimeter with dwell and RPM built into it so you check alternators, battery, starter, etc.

Today cars use iridium plugs which last far longer than copper, but they have to because changing plugs today is much more of a headache, plus you have a lot higher voltage from coil packs, so 75,000 to 100,000 is the recommended time for tuneup. Modern plugs cost as much as $18 each vs $4 for copper plugs, so in the long run changing the copper plugs, and doing a tune-up are cheaper in an older car. Word of note, buy your sparkplugs BEFORE you go to a mechanic to have the plugs changed, mechanic shops will charge you around $60 a plug for iridium instead of $18 or so, then have the mechanic install your plugs.

Older cars are less expensive to work on in regards to labor hours. For example, modern heater cores are located behind the dash of modern cars, forcing you to remove the dash, that's between an 8 to 12-hour job; in older cars, it was a 20-minute job at the most.