Mid-reach brake performance on dirt/gravel?

[XXtwindad]

I know they work great for the road but how about on mixed terrain? Dirt clearance capacity, stopping power etc.

Not talking about cantis, just mid-reach. Specifically Velo Orange Grand Cru, but other brands if people like them as well.

[rccardr]

I don’t do cross but ride a lot of country road gravel and Cino-esque gravel using Tektro 539’s and their matching R200 lever set. Clears actual 38’s and stops very well.

Any brakeset that will slow you confidently on the back side of Cypress Mountain with good modulation is a winner in my book.

[tellyho]

Just rode D2R2 98 mi, 10K of climbing on Tektro midreach and never had a moment where I thought I should have brought my disc gravel bike instead. I mostly did not think about them at all, because they just worked.

[Broccoli Cog]

I have Paul Racer center pulls on my Rivendell Sam Hillborne which is my gravel bike. These brakes have excellent performance which come from their design and overall stiffness. Not once do I think that I should have disc brakes. I ride 44 mm tires on this bike but do have to deflate the front wheel to get the tire in and out.

[Davist]

as long as it's not muddy you'll be fine. I wouldn't worry about it. From MTB days, 5 years of racing on cantis/vs and had one bad descent where I bottomed out both levers and had to bull dog the bike down a hill...

[AngryScientist]

As mentioned, they are perfectly fine for all but serious mud, you can definitely clog a caliper in those kind of conditions.

The practical limit of a mid reach brake is about a 35mm tire.

Depending on what you're trying to ride, the tire choice will be the limiting factor well before the brake choice.

[mhespenheide]

As others have said, mud clearance is going to be the biggest potential drawback.

Braking performance from the calipers themselves is going to be good enough that, in gravel, the real limit to braking is the traction with the ground. But that's true for any kind of brake.

[John H.]

I have had Grand Cru mid reach brakes. They are basically the same as a short reach in terms of performance.
Will they work on gravel? Sure.
Will they work well on gravel? Depends on your gravel. But for SF Bay area- not really.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by John H.

I have had Grand Cru mid reach brakes. They are basically the same as a short reach in terms of performance.
Will they work on gravel? Sure.
Will they work well on gravel? Depends on your gravel. But for SF Bay area- not really.

Whoomp. There it is.

[zennmotion]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I know they work great for the road but how about on mixed terrain? Dirt clearance capacity, stopping power etc.

Not talking about cantis, just mid-reach. Specifically Velo Orange Grand Cru, but other brands if people like them as well.

I tend to stay off East Bay trails during the few weeks of the year when they're muddy mostly to not contribute to the damage and erosion from the high traffic the local parks get all year round- I'm sure you've also seen the damage caused by just a few yahoos over a couple of wet days. So I don't consider muddy conditions for my rim brake "all-road" bikes. For 35-38mm tires that I ride on the trails I prefer centerpulls to mid-reach calipers in all cases. I replaced my Shimano R650s with Paul's (center mounted) just as an experiment and never switched back. Although the "feel" is different (more "spongy") stopping power is at least equal and modulation is better- the "spongy" feel makes for a better sense of when your wheel is about to lock up on steep dirt descents. Centerpulls also allow more tolerance for greater pad-rim clearance than calipers, nice for slightly out of true wheels and rough gritty surfaces and dirty rims. It's also easier to remove 35mm tires from centerpull brakes than mid-reach calipers without having to deflate the tires. Better clearance for fenders too, if they're part of the build plan. Paul Racer M's are sadly no longer made and hard to find, but I would buck fashion (you be you!) and skip the calipers for some centerpull brakes either from Rene Herse ($$$!) or Velo Orange (Dia-Compe 610s look very nice IMHO and reasonable price).
Edit: Keep in mind that Shimano's latest caliper brake versions have moved the location of the dual pivots to emulate the smooth power curve of centerpull brakes- to improve modulation. What is old is new again!

[prototoast]

The mud in the east bay is so nasty that I assume you won't ride in it anyway, so mud clearance isn't a big deal.

But on the flip side, the dry dirt can be pretty abrasive against your rims. I always felt pretty bad dragging my rim brakes down long, dusty descents.

[El Chaba]

Originally Posted by zennmotion

I tend to stay off East Bay trails during the few weeks of the year when they're muddy mostly to not contribute to the damage and erosion from the high traffic the local parks get all year round- I'm sure you've also seen the damage caused by just a few yahoos over a couple of wet days. So I don't consider muddy conditions for my rim brake "all-road" bikes. For 35-38mm tires that I ride on the trails I prefer centerpulls to mid-reach calipers in all cases. I replaced my Shimano R650s with Paul's (center mounted) just as an experiment and never switched back. Although the "feel" is different (more "spongy") stopping power is at least equal and modulation is better- the "spongy" feel makes for a better sense of when your wheel is about to lock up on steep dirt descents. Centerpulls also allow more tolerance for greater pad-rim clearance than calipers, nice for slightly out of true wheels and rough gritty surfaces and dirty rims. It's also easier to remove 35mm tires from centerpull brakes than mid-reach calipers without having to deflate the tires. Better clearance for fenders too, if they're part of the build plan. Paul Racer M's are sadly no longer made and hard to find, but I would buck fashion (you be you!) and skip the calipers for some centerpull brakes either from Rene Herse ($$$!) or Velo Orange (Dia-Compe 610s look very nice IMHO and reasonable price).
Edit: Keep in mind that Shimano's latest caliper brake versions have moved the location of the dual pivots to emulate the smooth power curve of centerpull brakes- to improve modulation. What is old is new again!

I agree. People resist using such old tech, which is a shame. Data point….Mafac Competition calipers with brazed on pivots, Campagnolo Record Ergopower levers (which are oddly compatible with the Mafacs), fenders, etc….One of the best brake setups that I have ever used….

[David Kirk]

I use Velo Orange rim brakes and the 38mm Rene Herse tire and I love the combo. The tires measure an actual 39.5 mm wide mounted on my wheels. The frame and fork are both designed to place the pads just off the bottom of the slots to give the very most tire room.

Nearly every ride I do involves a mix of pavement and gravel (about 85% gravel by distance) and it works very well for me. I have yet to wish I had more tire or more brake. Some of the roads are super chunky and some are very smooth and the tire size is a great compromise.

I don’t seek out rides in the rain and even when I do get caught I have no issues with room….the soil here is typically gritty and not sticky so I have zero build up on the tire.

Interestingly this type of bike has become the bulk of my framebuilding business. They are light and supple and have a sweet ride and there’s no noise or rotor rub or bleeding the brakes. I love the simplicity.

dave

[DeBike]

Quoting from the above post; " I love the simplicity".

Indeed, my Poprad has long reach calipers to replace the cantilevers; along with 6400 bar end shifters, in friction mode, with 11 speed cassette. Just might make it my second 1X. A lot to be said for simplicity.
Forgot to say, I love the bike!

[merckx]

David Kirk receives a "like" from me.