More Pegoretti queries

[Hilltopperny]

I am 5'8 and 230lbs presently with decent power. My Round rides smoothly, but still has the get up and go when you put power down. I have ridden it on 25s and now Corsa Control 30mm tires. The ride isn't harsh at all with proper tire pressures.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[hokoman]

Originally Posted by edgerat

Completed my fitting at Lakeside on Friday and determined that the Marcelo they have in stock would not look proper with my required seat height (68cm with 160cm cranks). So, I need a 50cm, and most likely will have to abandon Campy as they do not do 160cm cranks presently. That does open up the options for models for me.

Cheers

Were you trying to fit the 53cm with a 68cm seat height? I ordered a custom Marcelo (fat tire, med reach brake with steel fork) from the studio about 4 months ago - it might be a better option to get exactly what you want.

[GreenJersey]

At your weight (I'm 90kg) it is definitely the right model if you want to buy a Pegoretti and cannot afford/justify the Round. It is stiff but not harsh, plenty of posts on this forum have tried to explain in words how this bike 'feels' and the reason why we are still discussing about it years after Dario passing and the world having moved on to disc is that many owners loved it.

It is a racing bike, not an all-road or 'endurance' type of bike.

[AngryScientist]

Couple of random thoughts:

I also ride 50cm bikes. I have ridden many, many bikes of all materials. I have only ridden one bike frame that I could say was entirely too "stiff" and harsh feeling. I have very rarely, if ever heard criticism of a Pegoretti for being too stiff or harsh of a ride, so I wouldnt worry about that factor.

I am curious what makes you think you need 160mm cranks? I obviously don't know you or of any particular fit needs you have, but I'm skeptical of fitters with radical ideas for the vast majority of reasonably normally proportioned people. The big three make 170, 172.5 and 175 crank arms, and I think almost everyone out there should be fine on one of them.

I would never even consider a disc brake Pegoretti.

[Jimbo251]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

A few thoughts..

If you're considering a Pegoretti performance-focused road bike it must be because you want to experience riding a road bike the way road bikes are designed and intended to be ridden - hard, fast, and to the edge of control. The trend is of course to wider tires but I'd caution you not to follow that too far. Because you are more robustly built, you're going to run about the same pressure in 28s as a more svelte rider might in 25s, or the same in 30s that they would in 28s, etc. - so sizing up just a bit is fine, it will still feel like a road bike and not get muted and mushy when you're putting your considerable power down on the pedals. The concern there is if you go to a 32mm or 34/35mm option, you're going to start running pressures in the 50s or low-60s, and you're just not going to feel the same handling and feedback you get from a hard-edge road bike. Some are fine with that. I'm not. Not in context anyway. For an allroad bike or endurance rides or party pace? Sure. For experiencing riding a road bike the way some might desire to experience an early 90s 911? Not a chance.

But back to the bike.

A Mxxxxxo is perfect for what you have in mind and will be a great bike for you all the way down to 75-kgs, provided you keep that muscle around and still have the will to treat it like the tool it is. Yes, they are stiff. But they don't chatter like a stiff carbon bike. They take the hit and urge you to push harder - to turn over those gears and maintain the momentum. It's a wonderful feeling, not to be missed. No other bike I've owned or ridden has felt like a Mxxxxxo.

And, afaik, the Mxxxxxo is the most bombproof of all the builds, second only to the BLE. I know the SS versions are not as prone to issues under strong riders the way they used to be, but I'd still err on the side of caution and stick with the steel that's proven to stand up to everything you could possibly throw at it.

As for disc vs. rim, a Mxxxxxo should be experienced in rim-brake form. It was perfected for that and is balanced perfectly with the Falz fork in that guise. There will ALWAYS within our lifetime be plenty of performance rim-brake goods out there to keep you going. Have faith. I could in 20-mins right now go assemble a near NOS Campag Record 10 build. The parts aren't magically disappearing. Wheel choice? Sure, try WTOs. Or get Nexties. Or find some Bora Ultra tubulars just for shiggs and giggs.

Last thing - I'm sure there's a reason to go with 160mm cranks - Zack is a good fitter.. just, umm, think if that 5mm really matters that much if it also matters to you to be able to get certain components. I have size 49 feet and have ridding 170, 172.5, 175, 177.5, and 180mm cranks. The 180s felt a bit weird. The others all disappeared after a ride or two. But that's me. And I'm not one who likes to maintain a 100rpm cadence up hills, so the smaller I went the less at home I felt. I need a bit of a lever to let the torque do its thing. YMMV. But if 160mm vs. 165mm is the difference between two sizes, I'd want to spend some time on the shorty cranks before locking in on the frame.

Whichever way you go, enjoy the process - and share the journey... it's never too early to start that thread in the galleries.

..

This ^ .
Couldn't have said it better than Dan. I too, question the 160 cranks? I'm 5' 6" and have a 50cm Marcelo. I actually had some power numbers ran during a fitting and found I produce better power on 172.5's then 170's. Don't let your fitter or Gordon steer your bike decision, that said I agree with Dan in spend some time on the shorty crank arms and make sure that's where you want to go. If you want a rim brake Peg, go with it. Rim wheels and groups will be around for many years to come as there's a gazillion rim brake builds out there still rolling.
I have a RL coming in 2025 and it will be rim brake, If I was buying a Peg today or in 2025 it would be rim brake. I would not even consider a disc Pegoretti.

[OtayBW]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

A few thoughts..

If you're considering a Pegoretti performance-focused road bike it must be because you want to experience riding a road bike the way road bikes are designed and intended to be ridden - hard, fast, and to the edge of control......

.....As for disc vs. rim, a Mxxxxxo should be experienced in rim-brake form. It was perfected for that and is balanced perfectly with the Falz fork in that guise.....

.....Last thing - I'm sure there's a reason to go with 160mm cranks - Zack is a good fitter.. just, umm, think if that 5mm really matters that much if it also matters to you to be able to get certain components.
Whichever way you go, enjoy the process - and share the journey... it's never too early to start that thread in the galleries.

..

Agree with Clean. You're looking at buying a high-end road machine. I would embrace that for all it is and not be concerned so much with disc or tire size. Even the crank size probably has more wiggle room than you might expect. If you want road, buy it and enjoy it, and then on to Plan B if desired....

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Philster

I think there should be a concept like “dog years” for bikes. We think, given how much bikes cost, that we’re going to keep them forever. In reality 10 years is a really long time to ride the same bike. I’m confident that you can keep a rim/mechanical/whatever bike on the road for much longer than that.

What matters is how it rides (not how it looks). You’re lucky in that you have disk experience and you can compare it to a nice rim brake bike. Then make your choice.

However, you’re not getting married. Your athletic ability is going to change in the coming years. Even if it doesn’t, something else may catch your fancy.

Au contraire, mon frere.

Given the choice between (a) a crappy looking bike that rides sublimely and (b) an aesthetic marvel that rides like a tractor, I choose (c) hiking.

For me, bikes are functional works of art.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by OtayBW

... high-end road machine. I would embrace that for all it is and not be concerned so much with disc or tire size.

Agree, I have both and ride the road bikes most with rim brakes and 28-30mm tires, I am 212ish currently.

Also, ask yourself why this rim brake thread [link below] has 524 post and 56,022 view.

As far as 10 year plan, I still ride a few mid 80s and 90s steel bikes resto-modded with 11s Campy. And that is with zoot plastic bikes in the rotation.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=299875

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Couple of random thoughts:
... I have very rarely, if ever heard criticism of a Pegoretti for being too stiff or harsh of a ride, so I wouldnt worry about that factor.

I don't think the OP, at his weight, would need to worry about any Peg being too stiff. However, when I was researching which model to get for me (at 84kg), I came across quite a few comments (here and on VSalon) about the MxxxxO/Marcelo being too stiff for riders my size. More than a few said either they wished they bought a Duende or Responsorium, or that they already owned one of those models and far preferred it for almost all riding they were doing.

Slight thread drift, but maybe relevant. Cheers.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by tv_vt

I don't think the OP, at his weight, would need to worry about any Peg being too stiff. However, when I was researching which model to get for me (at 84kg), I came across quite a few comments (here and on VSalon) about the MxxxxO/Marcelo being too stiff for riders my size. More than a few said either they wished they bought a Duende or Responsorium, or that they already owned one of those models and far preferred it for almost all riding they were doing.

Slight thread drift, but maybe relevant. Cheers.

I think that has a lot to do with how folks are riding them. I wouldn’t want to noodle around on a Mxxxxxo for recovery rides at 100W.. they need to be ridden aggressively to feel right (atmo). The patient must know themself before seeking medicine, and also know where others are coming from when listening to their advice..

On the other hand, a Duende or Respo is an excellent bike, and can be ridden hard as well - probably a closer choice though for that sub-200lb rider vs. our OP.

[robt57]

Is the OP looking to use said bike in aggressive group riding VS JRA with interval/training etc? Also age and power come into play probably. What was flexy for me 25 year ago is fine today @ 67 years old. Plenty stiff is a term I started using at a point.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by robt57

Is the OP looking to use said bike in aggressive group riding VS JRA with interval/training etc? Also age and power come into play probably. What was flexy for me 25 year ago is fine today @ 67 years old. Plenty stiff is a term I started using at a point.

Not sure. I don't ride in groups. Too dangerous. But I aggressively chase myself.. does that count?

[Cloudofheaven]

Im 174cm tall and ride a 53cm Responsorium with a seat height of 69.8cm and 155mm cranks by Rotor. It's a smooth ride and I have it fitted with 25mm GP5000 tires. Im currently sitting at 180lbs, however I have ridden the bike when I was 210lbs, and it never been too stiff or harsh of a ride.

[edgerat]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

A few thoughts..

If you're considering a Pegoretti performance-focused road bike it must be because you want to experience riding a road bike the way road bikes are designed and intended to be ridden - hard, fast, and to the edge of control. The trend is of course to wider tires but I'd caution you not to follow that too far. Because you are more robustly built, you're going to run about the same pressure in 28s as a more svelte rider might in 25s, or the same in 30s that they would in 28s, etc. - so sizing up just a bit is fine, it will still feel like a road bike and not get muted and mushy when you're putting your considerable power down on the pedals. The concern there is if you go to a 32mm or 34/35mm option, you're going to start running pressures in the 50s or low-60s, and you're just not going to feel the same handling and feedback you get from a hard-edge road bike. Some are fine with that. I'm not. Not in context anyway. For an allroad bike or endurance rides or party pace? Sure. For experiencing riding a road bike the way some might desire to experience an early 90s 911? Not a chance.

But back to the bike.

A Mxxxxxo is perfect for what you have in mind and will be a great bike for you all the way down to 75-kgs, provided you keep that muscle around and still have the will to treat it like the tool it is. Yes, they are stiff. But they don't chatter like a stiff carbon bike. They take the hit and urge you to push harder - to turn over those gears and maintain the momentum. It's a wonderful feeling, not to be missed. No other bike I've owned or ridden has felt like a Mxxxxxo.

And, afaik, the Mxxxxxo is the most bombproof of all the builds, second only to the BLE. I know the SS versions are not as prone to issues under strong riders the way they used to be, but I'd still err on the side of caution and stick with the steel that's proven to stand up to everything you could possibly throw at it.

As for disc vs. rim, a Mxxxxxo should be experienced in rim-brake form. It was perfected for that and is balanced perfectly with the Falz fork in that guise. There will ALWAYS within our lifetime be plenty of performance rim-brake goods out there to keep you going. Have faith. I could in 20-mins right now go assemble a near NOS Campag Record 10 build. The parts aren't magically disappearing. Wheel choice? Sure, try WTOs. Or get Nexties. Or find some Bora Ultra tubulars just for shiggs and giggs.

Last thing - I'm sure there's a reason to go with 160mm cranks - Zack is a good fitter.. just, umm, think if that 5mm really matters that much if it also matters to you to be able to get certain components. I have size 49 feet and have ridding 170, 172.5, 175, 177.5, and 180mm cranks. The 180s felt a bit weird. The others all disappeared after a ride or two. But that's me. And I'm not one who likes to maintain a 100rpm cadence up hills, so the smaller I went the less at home I felt. I need a bit of a lever to let the torque do its thing. YMMV. But if 160mm vs. 165mm is the difference between two sizes, I'd want to spend some time on the shorty cranks before locking in on the frame.

Whichever way you go, enjoy the process - and share the journey... it's never too early to start that thread in the galleries.

..

Thank you sir! Pegoretti does spend a fair amount of ink describing stiffness and I wanted to hedge my bets before spending the money on a dream bike build.

This was my first fit where a fit bike was available and that is how I arrived at short cranks. With my proportions I have a gut and I was able to make more power and get in a better position with the shorty cranks. Shimano makes a 160 and I have ordered those for my Aethos as an inexpensive test. I do spin on climbs, I also like to get up so we shall see how the short cranks work. Unless I am mistaken the crank length doesn't have a lot to do with the frame size and we based the 50cm fit on exposed seat post and what would be the best off the shelf (if it would fit me) size. The 53cm Marcelo that Gordon has (my word is it a nice ciavete) didn't have enough exposed post for my taste. We mocked up the 53 and 50 and the 50 gives me standover as well.

For the other poster's questions, I have two types of riding that I do. I either ride with my wife or do hard solo rides. No group rides, no racing, just miles on awful roads. I feel pretty confident based on the feedback that the Marcelo is going to work well for me.

Off to figure out what these Next wheels are folks have talked about, I may or may not have become enamoured with CULT bearings based on some demonstrations

Isaac
Rim Brake Defense Force lapsed member

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by edgerat

Thank you sir! Pegoretti does spend a fair amount of ink describing stiffness and I wanted to hedge my bets before spending the money on a dream bike build.

This was my first fit where a fit bike was available and that is how I arrived at short cranks. With my proportions I have a gut and I was able to make more power and get in a better position with the shorty cranks. Shimano makes a 160 and I have ordered those for my Aethos as an inexpensive test. I do spin on climbs, I also like to get up so we shall see how the short cranks work. Unless I am mistaken the crank length doesn't have a lot to do with the frame size and we based the 50cm fit on exposed seat post and what would be the best off the shelf (if it would fit me) size. The 53cm Marcelo that Gordon has (my word is it a nice ciavete) didn't have enough exposed post for my taste. We mocked up the 53 and 50 and the 50 gives me standover as well.

For the other poster's questions, I have two types of riding that I do. I either ride with my wife or do hard solo rides. No group rides, no racing, just miles on awful roads. I feel pretty confident based on the feedback that the Marcelo is going to work well for me.

Off to figure out what these Next wheels are folks have talked about, I may or may not have become enamoured with CULT bearings based on some demonstrations

Isaac
Rim Brake Defense Force lapsed member

That all sounds great. The good news about soft-tissue driven range-of-motion impingement (aka, having a bit of belly) is it is reversible with some solid work..

Once you get this together I'll have to plan a stop in Olympia to spin some miles together -- I got to Seattle for work fairly frequently and have never ridding in/around Olympia.