Zwift Setup for the winter

cmbicycles · #1 10-05-2017, 08:44 PM

Looking ahead to winter, ugh, and thinking about Zwift as an option to keep from total boredom riding the trainer.
Right now I don't have a power meter, nor a smart trainer, and looking at Zwift it should still work but not as optimally based on their faq. I'm considering getting something like a power tap wheel and using it with my Garmin in season... perhaps, I still prefer a simple speedometer. Other option on the table would be to sell my dumtrainer and get a simple smart trainer to replace it.
Anything else I should consider? Pro/cons of one to the other for those who use zwift or similar.

Chris · #2 10-05-2017, 08:49 PM

I've used a Kurt Kinetic with both Zwift and TrainerRoad. I did an entire 4 or 5 months last winter doing only trainer rides. No power meter either. It worked just fine as is, and I actually think I would prefer a dumb trainer to a smart trainer because it allows you to vary your effort. When the smart trainer is running the show and you can't exert the prescribed wattage, then you can't exert it. I do think you can dial it down, but on the dumb trainer you just try to match the prescribed exertion with your own combination of cadence and gearing. I liked being able to go a little under an interval if I wanted to back off a little or skip one all together.

ceolwulf · #3 10-05-2017, 08:53 PM

When I started with Zwift all I had was a cheap fluid trainer and an ANT+ speed sensor and honestly it worked perfectly fine.

A power meter is, I think, not enough of an upgrade to bother with just for Zwift. Virtual power is fine. You can ride around and/or do workouts just as well as with a power meter, won't be quite as accurate but unless you're doing Zwift races it's a non-issue I think. What you want is the smart trainer. Two big advantages: you can feel the terrain, or when in workout mode you can use erg mode and do very accurate intervals because the trainer will maintain the power output.

I got basically the cheapest option for a smart trainer, the Tacx Vortex Smart, and it does everything I need. Can only simulate up to an 8% gradient though, but, there aren't too many places in Zwift where it's steeper than that. Anything over 8% you don't feel any increase in resistance, just the little guy on the screen goes slower. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

kramnnim · #4 10-05-2017, 09:07 PM

Estimated/virtual power is often not very accurate at all...

ceolwulf · #5 10-05-2017, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramnnim

Estimated/virtual power is often not very accurate at all...

It’s reasonably consistent though so as long as you’re trying to improve the numbers it’s giving you and not comparing to power meter numbers it’s probably going to serve the purpose I think. Accuracy less important than precision in this case.

ergott · #6 10-05-2017, 09:15 PM

Chris, just to clarify you are talking about only one setting for smart trainers. It's called erg mode. I don't use it. The smart trainer matches the grade of the virtual ride so you can replicate the resistance of climbs and flat terrain. This is what eliviated the bordem of indoor riding for me. I'm more likely to ride for an hour or two where I used to drag through 45min on a dumb trainer.

I highly recommend a smart trainer. Direct drive is much more accurate and consistent (mounts to dropouts without rear wheel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Chris · #7 10-05-2017, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ergott

Chris, just to clarify you are talking about only one setting for smart trainers. It's called erg mode. I don't use it. The smart trainer matches the grade of the virtual ride so you can replicate the resistance of climbs and flat terrain. This is what eliviated the bordem of indoor riding for me. I'm more likely to ride for an hour or two where I used to drag through 45min on a dumb trainer.

I highly recommend a smart trainer. Direct drive is much more accurate and consistent (mounts to dropouts without rear wheel.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Yes, totally correct. My point was that not having a smart trainer works fine. I can definitely see where the mode you're talking about would be beneficial.

cmbicycles · #8 10-05-2017, 09:40 PM

So if using a smart trainer, do the trainers adjust resistance based on zwift, or does zwift respond to changes in output thru the smart trainer? Not sure if I'm phrasing the question right as it's been a long day. I think some smart trainers are just a reporter for power/speed, and some can adjust resistance based on virtual courses.

LJohnny · #9 10-05-2017, 10:07 PM

They adjust resistance based on the virtual course. And in erg mode they adjust resistance to keep the fixed power point that you set.

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Wayne77 · #10 10-05-2017, 10:08 PM

I think a smart trainer is worth every penny. Indoor trainer workouts (I've had a Cycleops fluid2 for years) were miserable affairs for me until I got a Wahoo Kikr Snap. Doing a Zwift route is SOOO much more engaging with a smart trainer...like ergott said, it's all about the realistic feel of the grade changing the resistance, shifting just like you would have to on the road, etc. It really is amazing how the Zwift people have managed to pull this off. I did the Volcano climb today...it's about 6 miles, 2000' of climbing. At the end it kicks up to 14%. I was chugging along to that point and a guy who was behind me most of the way tries to sprint by me 400 yards out to the snag the finish. No way Jose. I was already pouring sweat but just had to bury myself to try to shut that down :-) Serioisly felt like I was going to cough up a lung. Im just not that competitive in my basement so kudos to Zwift for creating an environment that encourages that in a friendly way. Anyway, I don't think you can replicate that experience with a traditional trainer/virtual power.

Regarding Erg mode. Chris, I guess it depends on your perspective. You mention the smart trainer running the show where you can't vary the wattage. I consider that a pro. I use erg mode for interval sessions using TrainerRoad. With intervals I think this is exactly what should be going on...the trainer is going to drive the workout and keep you disciplined...just like a Computrainer. You can either do the workout or you can't. The key is you need to have an accurate FTP baseline. If the workout is based on your FTP, then the fact is you CAN do the prescribed workout (unless you're feeling sick or you're just not in the mood to suffer). The smart trainer will ensure that you don't slack off.

So that brings up the other no-brainer Smart trainer advantage (for me): It gives me the ability to follow a structured workout session FAR better than I could out on the road by feel. There's just no way I could perform a structured workout proscribed by my coach or training plan with nearly the same accuracy and consistency as I can with a smart trainer or Computrainer.

Direct drive vs wheel mount. Correct that direct drive is a little more accurate...also quieter. I have the Kikr Snap wheel mount and I have no issues with it...3% vs 5% accuracy and slightly queiter weren't enough for me to merit spending twice the amount for the regular Kikr. I think the wheel mount options easily give you 90% of the value that a high end direct mount trainer does. If I had the budget Im sure I would have gotten a direct drive. Anyway, I've spent the last 4 years on a Computrainer, and I don't think the Kikr Snap gives up much to the Computrainer. Just my .02 of course.

LJohnny · #11 10-05-2017, 10:09 PM

Having said that, Zwift does provide real-time reaction to your power output, I.e. the simulation runs faster to render higher speed and your avatar represents your cadence

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kramnnim · #12 10-05-2017, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceolwulf

It’s reasonably consistent though so as long as you’re trying to improve the numbers it’s giving you and not comparing to power meter numbers it’s probably going to serve the purpose I think. Accuracy less important than precision in this case.

For me, the group rides and races are the main reasons I use Zwift. If your power measurement is too high, your virtual rider is faster than it should be...too low, and you're slow... Neither is good for racing...

I've ridden around 12,000 virtual miles on Zwift, most of them were with a semismart trainer that was not controlled by the program. I really don't like to feel the resistance changes that are based on the virtual terrain...a lot of shifting gears.

Ergo mode is great for intervals and preset workouts. Direct drive is great. Now that I'm used to one, it would be difficult to go back to one that uses a wheel and tire...

Geekonbike · #13 10-06-2017, 07:45 AM

Another option:

InsideRide Emotion Rollers and their Smart Resistance add on from Elite (Quobo Elite Smart Something or other).

Last year I rode the normal Emotion rollers around 200 miles a week during the winter. These are way easy to ride and are more challenging than just riding on a stationary trainer.

This year I picked up the Smart Resistance unit for another $330 from their site. That unit + powertap rear wheel has made Zwift much more fun. Feels realistic (as much as you can when you're inside)

Tony T · #14 10-06-2017, 07:56 AM

When you're set-up, try TrainerRoad as well as Zwift.
No Virtual Ride with TrainerRoad, but I like TR's workout plans.

kppolich · #15 10-06-2017, 07:58 AM

TrainerRoad user here with crank based power meters on my bikes (2 Quarqs and 1 Power2Max Classic). Kurt Kinetic road machine is a great indoor trainer and I used an old rear wheel, cheap cassette, and trainer tire to make a dedicated trainer wheel. This setup has been going strong for 4 years and makes the Iowa winters manageable from a fitness standpoint.