The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by perdido

No luck. Shifting is somewhat improved but still subpar. It hesitates at some point both going up and down the cassette.

I did install a new cable and liner from Jagwire (Road Elite sealed) and did check hanger alignment once again.

Last bullet is Max Smoothness cable set, but can't bring myself to pay that absurd amount of money (100 coins), especially when only 1/2 of the set is needed.

Very odd, what gears is it hesitating in? The same issue with the last two largest cogs? Can you shown any pics or video of the setup.

Also, for cables, I use this for my campag bikes:

https://www.condorcycles.com/en-us/p...31645441851530

[nalax]

Campy also recommends cable ends with a nose for the shift cable. I've tried both types and the long ones work better.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by nalax

Campy also recommends cable ends with a nose for the shift cable. I've tried both types and the long ones work better.

And no cable end ferrule where the outer cable fits into the shifter body. Will take some pictures of my cable routing.

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Very odd, what gears is it hesitating in? The same issue with the last two largest cogs? Can you shown any pics or video of the setup.

Also, for cables, I use this for my campag bikes:

https://www.condorcycles.com/en-us/p...31645441851530

If your bike frame needs a full housing run then the Ekar cable and housing kit comes with 2100mm of housing and cable. It's part number is CG-RD703 and can be found also at Condor...https://www.condorcycles.com/en-us/p...41890952773782.

I'm glad to see the Ekar cable set in stock again, it was nowhere to be found for many months. I ended up using the Jagwire Campagnolo-specific inner cable and threaded it through the existing Campy housing as there was no binding at all when I ran the cable through.

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by perdido

No luck. Shifting is somewhat improved but still subpar. It hesitates at some point both going up and down the cassette.

I did install a new cable and liner from Jagwire (Road Elite sealed) and did check hanger alignment once again.

Last bullet is Max Smoothness cable set, but can't bring myself to pay that absurd amount of money (100 coins), especially when only 1/2 of the set is needed.

I changed out my Max Smoothness inner cable with the Jagwire Elite cable when my shifting got funky. Turns out that the campy cable was fraying just a bit (like 2 strands) right outside the lever body. I couldn't see any reason that the cable would fray except that I had a heck of a time routing the shift cable through my Coefficient handlebars. Perhaps all that fidgeting around was enough break a strand or two, but that was several thousand miles before the shifting started acting up.

When you removed the max smoothness cables, did you notice any crimping, scratching or crushing of the housing? The inner cable looked good, too? The Open UP looks like it has a pretty clean run from entry port to the exit port but sometimes working the housing around the BB area can cause issues.

[perdido]

To be honest, I'm not sure that the bike (Open U.P.) came built with max smoothness cables. I replaced the shift cable with jagwire sealed about 4 months of riding with the original cable. There were a couple of details (i.e. no safety clip on the bb cups) that make me wary of the built, not sure if it was Open Cycles fault or my LBS.
This bicycle uses semi internal routing that requires short pieces of liner at the entry point into the frame (headtube) and through the bottom bracket guide. My bike did not have these liners installed either.
The issue could be somewhere in the internal routing so I'm thinking of getting the max smoothness full casing set and temporarily routing externally to see if that improves shifting. If it does, I could drill entry/exit ports to accept full casing internally.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by perdido

To be honest, I'm not sure that the bike (Open U.P.) came built with max smoothness cables. I replaced the shift cable with jagwire sealed about 4 months of riding with the original cable. There were a couple of details (i.e. no safety clip on the bb cups) that make me wary of the built, not sure if it was Open Cycles fault or my LBS.
This bicycle uses semi internal routing that requires short pieces of liner at the entry point into the frame (headtube) and through the bottom bracket guide. My bike did not have these liners installed either.
The issue could be somewhere in the internal routing so I'm thinking of getting the max smoothness full casing set and temporarily routing externally to see if that improves shifting. If it does, I could drill entry/exit ports to accept full casing internally.

It does seem like something is not moving smoothly. My bike has internal routing through the down tube but is exposed - no liner or anything - on the bottom of the chain stay. I have always been worried about that but it has never been a problem.

Another thing to think about is your handlebar tape. The cable routing through the shifter has a little opening and if your tape or any "gel pads" are over that area, it can stick to the cable and cause shifting problems.

[gfk_velo]

Before diving down too many rabbit holes, do the 1kg test - that will tell you straight away and with little effort, whether what you have is a cable friction issue, or something else.

In cases where you have a cable friction problem, many of the remedies are the same as those for the other things that case problems in (especially) 12 and 13s systems, where compression of the outer (so-called "cable stretch") results in problems with indexing.

The rules that we apply at the Service Centre are as follow and many of them hold good for all mechanical derailleur systems, regardless of manufacturer:

Multiple sections of cable, for Campagnolo, each section should terminate at the cable stop with one of the Campagnolo alloy ferrules, with a "tail". The exception is the lever.

Plastic ferrules from third parties don't often (IMO, from building / correcting problems with a *lot* of Ekar bikes) work well and the match of cable OD to ferrule ID needs to be such that the outer cable goes all the way to the "floor" of the ferrule - if the ferrule ID is too small, or "funnels" in any way, that may and may not happen. Many plastic reffules do "funnel" slightly as a result of the moulding process.

Use Campag outer. That way ferrule ID and outer cable OD will match. Third parties may be slightly different and no-one, me included, ever measures to verify the fit into the ferrule (I don't really need to - on Campag, we only use Campag OE cables,likewise, Shimano, we use Shimano, SRAM, SRAM ...)

Cut the outer cable ends properly square and grind them flat, don't rely on even a good quality cross-cutter to give you flat, square ends.

Make sure that the liner is opened out to a slightly bell-shape exit to eliminate any friction from a ragged end on the nylon sleeve.

Use the Maximum Smoothness Inner. I don't say that because I want you to buy more inners - I say it because I want you to buy less - buy it once and buy it correctly. I know that from time to time & in some markets, it's hard to find - but a bit of searching will usually find it. In the UK, it's one of the "never run out of" SKUs ... so we can generally supply even where the retailers can't find it from their wholesaler.

Other things that get missed and can cause issues are:

When fitting the lever to the bar, depending on the order of work (and mechanic's preferences and sometimes other circumstances tend to vary this) tape the outer firmly in place and push the lever hard up against the outer to ensure that it definitely bottoms out in the lever. Assemble the inner and adjust the system before taping the bar so that if you need to adjust the position of the lever, the outer is always moved with the lever and no "gap" is opened up between the lever body and the end of the outer at that point - occasionally we see fray-though at that point (alluded to above) where a gap does open and the inner ends up running across the cut edge of the outer.

Once the lever is positioned - be sure to torque it adequately. One of the 1st things I look at when a bike comes in to us with reportedly poor shifting is whether the levers are at the same height on the bars - especially on gravel, with generally pooer surfaces, the lever can migrate "down" the curve of the bar slightly - hydro brakes mean that you won't see anything at the brake block (and in rim brakes, brakes are often adjusted frequently enough the the brake pulling in because the lever hs moved is seldom obvious). If the lever moves but the outer is firmly taped in, again, a "gap" can open up between the end of the outer cable and the floor of the cable port.

Once final lever positions are set and the system is indexing nicely, fully tape the outer to the bar (assuming it's external) with PVC tape. This reduces outer cable squirm and gives a better long term durability of adjustment - I've been doing this since 10s. It also makes re-taping quicker, where adhesive tapes are used, as less glue residue stays stuck when the old tape is peeled off ...

Where there is exposed inner cable available to do it, once the adjustments are all done, give the inner cable a tug, not too hard (you don't want to induce anf kinks at the ends of the exposed sector, or risk ripping cable stops off the frame - yes, I have seen it happen - to make as sure as you can that all the errules are properly seated and the outer is properly seated in the ferrules. Then recheck the set-up - it will often have changed slightly.

These notes pre-suppose a fully matched system, Campag cassette and chain, rather than any Franken-setup. All bets are off where potential third party issues are introduced.

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

Before diving down too many rabbit holes, do the 1kg test - that will tell you straight away and with little effort, whether what you have is a cable friction issue, or something else...

...These notes pre-suppose a fully matched system, Campag cassette and chain, rather than any Franken-setup. All bets are off where potential third party issues are introduced.

Who needs AI when there's RI, real intelligence, in our midst? Thank you for sharing your expertise.

[perdido]

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

Before diving down too many rabbit holes, do the 1kg test - that will tell you straight away and with little effort, whether what you have is a cable friction issue, or something else.

....

These notes pre-suppose a fully matched system, Campag cassette and chain, rather than any Franken-setup. All bets are off where potential third party issues are introduced.

Thank you so much for the detailed response! Great tips regarding taping cables, ferrules, etc. I will order a full casing inner/outer/ferrules.
The only non-Campagnolo item is the cable set.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it works fine with a 9-36 cassette, as the b-tension can be adjusted so the derailleur sits closer to the cassette.
It's the 9-42 cassette that it's not shifting as it should.

[oldpotatoe]

Good overview by GFK-Velo and also make sure the wee brass washer is in the lever where the DER housing pushes against it. It's there and not turned sideways..seen that a couple of times..