What-a-ya think about the brochure??? (caution, Serotta content)

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

I'm wondering if Serotta's requirement of a $4500 deposit to get in the build queue is consistent with what other custom builders charge? I just looked up Firefly's policy, and they only ask for a $1000 deposit.

https://serotta.com/deposit

"To proceed with ordering a bike you will pay a $4500 non-refundable deposit to reserve your spot on the build list. Once we collect your measurement data, a draft is made, you approve it and we assign a target build commencement date for your frame. At that time, you will also be provided an estimated delivery date for your bicycle..."

wait - how much do these things cost in total?

only a true fool would plunk down $4,500 as a non-refundable deposit for a vaporware product.

edit: i see now the duetti is starting at $8,900 for a complete bike. Realistically that's not out of line with other top end Ti builders, but Serotta is shooting themselves right in the foot as usual. 4500 bucks deposit is a total non-starter for me, and probably everyone and anyone else that is even vaguely familiar with their performance history.

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

wait - how much do these things cost in total?

only a true fool would plunk down $4,500 as a non-refundable deposit for a vaporware product.

edit: i see now the duetti is starting at $8,900 for a complete bike. Realistically that's not out of line with other top end Ti builders, but Serotta is shooting themselves right in the foot as usual. 4500 bucks deposit is a total non-starter for me, and probably everyone and anyone else that is even vaguely familiar with their performance history.

They need the money to start up is my guess.

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

wait - how much do these things cost in total?

only a true fool would plunk down $4,500 as a non-refundable deposit for a vaporware product.

edit: i see now the duetti is starting at $8,900 for a complete bike. Realistically that's not out of line with other top end Ti builders, but Serotta is shooting themselves right in the foot as usual. 4500 bucks deposit is a total non-starter for me, and probably everyone and anyone else that is even vaguely familiar with their performance history.

I'm not sure you are the target buyer. People who plunk down for $10000.00 bikes generally don't spend alot of time on ebay or bike forums looking for bargain basement deals. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Miller76]

And they are not offering a frame only option at this stage. $4,500 deposit required


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[fiamme red]

Originally Posted by Miller76

And they are not offering a frame only option at this stage. $4,500 deposit required

Why not offer an option for frame and fork alone, and let the customer use his own parts and wheels to build the bike if he chooses? Is there a good reason only to offer complete bikes?

[gavingould]

crazy on the deposit.

[Velocipede]

I'm curious who's building it. I know he's having some things made in Asia, I wonder if this is too?

[ERK55]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Why not offer an option for frame and fork alone, and let the customer use his own parts and wheels to build the bike if he chooses? Is there a good reason only to offer complete bikes?

Probably to maximize profit?
But there are a number of solo custom builders who will only send out complete bikes.

[pdmtong]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Why not offer an option for frame and fork alone, and let the customer use his own parts and wheels to build the bike if he chooses? Is there a good reason only to offer complete bikes?

Some builders only sell complete - Speedvagen is one. The pretense is that they want to ensure the whole bike works as it should. The subtext is they want bikes rolling out the door with the best groups and wheels, not a f/f adorned with 9 speed Ultegra triple on 32h open pros.

Having to buy complete is a deal breaker for me BUT I would think that can be "discussed" outside the lines once it's determined you intend to place an order.

If Ben had recent history of delivering outstanding product on time the $4500 would be outrageous but rationalized. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

[gavingould]

anyone have an idea of how many bikes have actually been made and sold to end users under Ben's business incarnations since the whole debacle back in 2013 with Divine Cycling Group/Blue/MadFiber?

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Straight gage?

Butted.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by fiamme red

Why not offer an option for frame and fork alone, and let the customer use his own parts and wheels to build the bike if he chooses? Is there a good reason only to offer complete bikes?

Yup, because the margin on parts purchased as OEM is YUGE!!
But like buying any high zoom frame, letting the customer decide how to rig it is key....ought to offer frame and/or fork only.

The subtext is they want bikes rolling out the door with the best groups and wheels, not a f/f adorned with 9 speed Ultegra triple on 32h open pros.

Pretty arrogant on their part. The ‘heart’ of a bicycle is the frame and fork. The rest of the ‘stuff’ are only consumables and for coffee shop points.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by Mikej

They need the money to start up is my guess.

Yes. No risk taking. No skin in the game. It's all on the customer.

[jpw]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Straight gage?

I think the tubes are being hydroformed in Taiwan. I think I read that. I'm not sure if that equates to straight or butted in the traditional sense. Interesting tech.

[BumbleBeeDave]

The snark and speculation machines always go into red zone overdrive whenever Ben's name is mentioned here. I've never quite understood why.

The steel frames are currently being built by Frank the Welder. The Ti frames are coming out of Vicious in New Paltz.

Here are some pictures. The bare ti frame is the prototype gravel bike. It has the Campy Ekar group on it and there are also a few pictures of that. The bike with the blue is steel. Both bikes look beautiful.

Ben is a human beings like every other human being. He has his strong points--and weak ones. For me the bottom line is that, as Dave Kirk has so eloquently put it, Ben ran a successful bike company for 40 years that helped employees raise families and buy homes.

FORTY. YEARS.

Has anyone else here done that? Anyone? . . . . . . . . (crickets)

Yeah, I thought so. Go ride your bikes. He will succeed or he will fail, but it's not up to us, and I assure you he is not breathlessly following every post in every thread here that mentions his name.

BBD