Vintage Audio part 5 - Speakers

[glepore]

Originally Posted by mcteague

Open baffle speakers really need to be heard to be appreciated for how real they can sound. I’m actually trying to sell my Orions in order to make room for Sigfried Linkwitz’s final design, the LX521.

http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/...-dipole/195571

Tim

You get those 521's built and I'll drive up there to audition them

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by glepore

I've always loved dipole or omni radiators, ie Ohms, electrostatics, Maggies etc. but they're bloody inefficient.

Wow, I haven't thought about Ohm speakers in decades! I presume you're referring to the Model F, with its "Walsh" driver, yes?

While i loved the dispersion I was never particularly impressed with the sound of the Ohm F, so I was ready to be disappointed when I encountered some vaguely similar-looking omni radiators by German company MBL a few years ago.

Holy. Crap.

If you ever get a chance to audition a pair of MBL Reference 101E Radialstrahlers, do it. Easily one of the top 3 speakers I've ever heard in my life...and I've been fortunate to hear some doozies.

They ain't cheap. And yeah, they ain't efficient either. But wow...

[buddybikes]

Want to talk inefficient - Ohm A's, shop I worked at sold them, saw few go out the door.

[Ken Robb]

I think efficiency used to be much more important when 20 watts from a tube amplifier (or 20 per channel when stereo arrived) was considered pretty high-output. These days 100 watts per channel and more is routine so we can still get plenty of volume from inefficient speakers.

[glepore]

Bob, I have a pair of Walsh 4's, the later design with "normal" inverted drivers. They have a terrific open dispersion, but are a little lacking on the high end. Some TakeT or amt tweaters would likely help.

@Ken-I agree, sort of. Efficient speakers are still necessary with tube setups-my SET amp is only 8 watts, but its pure class A and sounds killer. The main system has a couple different 200 wpc solid state amps, but for critical listening I'm usually using a Cary with kt77's-it might be 35-40 wpc, but because of the way tubes "clip" they punch above their weight.

Put on Jaco Pastorious last night with the Betsy's, and the soundstage was 20 feet wide and 8 ft tall-just flat out grin inspiring.

[William]

Spotted a pair of Carver 60 inch di-pole ribbons with 4 12inch woofers each on the Boston CL....

.

[William]

I recently picked up a pair of VR-M90 reference speakers that have pretty much ruined me from listening to other sources of music. Amazingly clear and uncolored, to the point I'm hearing things in works I thought I knew that I didn't pick up before. Even Mr's William, who didn't really care about sound quality before commented that they have ruined listening to music through other sources for her. Now she will sit down and listen for hours on these things. The fact that the warm cherry cabinets look good as well doesn't hurt. Win win.

Paired up with my vintage Marantz, the sound is just sublime even though these speakers could handle about 12+ times the power the Marantz puts out.






William

[glepore]

At 700 bucks, those Carver's are a steal. An interesting speaker for sure.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by William

I recently picked up a pair of VR-M90 reference speakers that have pretty much ruined me from listening to other sources of music. Amazingly clear and uncolored, to the point I'm hearing things in works I thought I knew that I didn't pick up before. Even Mr's William, who didn't really care about sound quality before commented that they have ruined listening to music through other sources for her. Now she will sit down and listen for hours on these things. The fact that the warm cherry cabinets look good as well doesn't hurt. Win win.

Paired up with my vintage Marantz, the sound is just sublime even though these speakers could handle about 12+ times the power the Marantz puts out.

William

Cool to hear you found some speakers you both appreciate.

My only recommend, wife permitting, would be to pull the speakers away from the front wall if possible and see how it changes the sound. Pull them out as far as you are comfortable (within reason and keeping triangulation to seating position in mind) and then listen. Walk them back towards the front wall in small increments and listen as you go to find the best placement.

[William]

Originally Posted by kingpin75s

Cool to hear you found some speakers you both appreciate.

My only recommend, wife permitting, would be to pull the speakers away from the front wall if possible and see how it changes the sound. Pull them out as far as you are comfortable (within reason and keeping triangulation to seating position in mind) and then listen. Walk them back towards the front wall in small increments and listen as you go to find the best placement.

They are about 4 inches from the wall now but I will give your recommendation a try.





William

[mcteague]

Originally Posted by William

They are about 4 inches from the wall now but I will give your recommendation a try.





William

I was just about to say the same. Speakers really need to be away from walls to sound their best unless specifically designed to use the boundary reinforcement.

Tim

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by William

They are about 4 inches from the wall now but I will give your recommendation a try.

William

Cool. Give at a shot and if you notice improvements, let us know where it sounded best and your room dimensions.

I may need to do the same myself today. I just swapped out for a new preamp and am now getting too much bass reinforcement and it is effecting the presence of vocals. Some things sound better but the overall sound has lost its cohesive nature so I have some further tuning to do based on my change.

As a reference, my speakers are probably 30" or so pulled out from my front wall and that had sounded best up to my change last night.

[William]

Moved them out so the speaker face is about two feet from the back wall...noticeable difference and improvement! I can't really take them out any further because then they start to protrude into the traffic area.






William

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by William

Moved them out so the speaker face is about two feet from the back wall...noticeable difference and improvement! I can't really take them out any further because then they start to protrude into the traffic area.

William

Awesome. Great to hear.

There are always limitations but great to get what you can from the flexibility you have. Happy to hear it was a noticeable difference!

[djg]

Originally Posted by William

Moved them out so the speaker face is about two feet from the back wall...noticeable difference and improvement! I can't really take them out any further because then they start to protrude into the traffic area.

William

Positioning matters (for some speakers it's huge), but it has to work for your use of the room too, and sometimes you get your most bang-for-the-room-use compromise when you ameliorate placement issues, as you've done. You might also play with lateral placement a bit, but you might be even more constrained by the room there.

It seems you've sort of scored here -- if you have new (to you) speakers set up in a way that really have you and your wife immersed in listening to music you both love -- in a way you weren't with your old setup, then you've hit a home run. Enjoy.