Mountain lion attack

[KidWok]

This incident hit a bit too close to home. I live in Seattle. SJ worked at the shop my partner and I go to for e bike purchasing and service. They (this person identified as non-binary gender) were close friends with some of my cycling buddies. I've oftentimes ridden in the area where they were killed.

I've resisted the urge to try and understand the situation...why it happened, what was up with the mountain lion, etc. Just tragic...

Tai

[jumphigher]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

Yes, I live here and part of my job description in carnivore advocacy/protection and that is indeed the law. Most western states have hunting seasons for cats. Many still classify them as vermin that can be killed without limit.

Sure part of the original reason was economic and while the ranching community still claims this, the fact is that less than 3% of all cattle/sheep mortality is from predation. Nevertheless I had a rancher in New Mexico tell me that if she lost even one steer to a wolf, she would be bankrupt. (I would suggest that her business was already dead if this was the case).

There's more to it. Betty, the rancher in New Mexico, loved her livestock. Each one had a name. Losing one to a predator was deeply personal, the same as if one of us had our dog killed or perhaps cat eaten by a coyote. For others, there is a lot wrapped up in the Western "lifestyle" and rugged rancher mentality. A predator killing ones personal property, ones chattel, is a direct challenge to ones power to control and dominion over other living things. Suggested reading: William Kittridge - Owning it All.

Where things get really ugly on carnivores and control is with public lands ranching. Cattle ranching is very heavily subsidized by American taxpayers with low cost grazing allotments. One would think that, given they are using federal public land, that use restrictions reflecting the majority will (for instance in Washington over 70% support the presence of wolves in the state) would be a reasonable restriction. Not so, at least not from the perspective of most ranchers (and loggers and on and on).

No, for many (most?) in these communities, proximity confers greater right to use our public lands than the rest of us have, even if we are the majority. And my use of the word use is very intentional. Putting our natural resources to "good and wise use" is very much part of the judeo-christian mentality that prevails - these resources are here solely for man's use and enjoyment. And so shooting a cougar becomes an exercise of that dominion over the resources, and being a good shepherd protecting the useful animals from the bad, the evil.

Economics is a part, but only a small part of the conflict if folks take a hard and honest look at what's going on. For an extreme case, consider the Bundy family in Nevada; its refusal to pay even the low grazing fees, its take over of a National wildlife refuge in the claim that the federal government has no jurisdiction over public lands in the West. This is part of it too. The hate of the federal lawman telling these god-fearing folk what they can and cannot do. All the threads of the narrative are interwoven in a story of human hubris.

I agree with this. I've read extensively about it, and my wife has taken depositions from BLM employees. They tell stories of people that live in the wilderness as well as ranchers who believe they have a right to do anything they want with US land, that wildlife and conservation protection laws dont apply to them and that they shouldnt be forced to pay even the most minimal fees for licensing or anything else. I dont think most Americans have a clue how bad this is in some areas. These people have essentially declared war on the US Govt and believe they should be allowed to do whatever they want. Being underfunded and undermanned the job for the BLM people is often very dangerous.

The Bundy situation was outrageous imo, and illustrates how out of touch many of these people are, including the public.

[sitzmark]

Interesting perspectives on BLM. My familiarity with BLM is from relatives and their friends in Nebraska who fought (and lost) BLM on taking tracts of land for the Trans-Canada pipeline using eminent domaine. The choice was either to ceed access/control of the land to the Canadian-owned pipeline company or the US BLM would confiscate the land through eminent domaine. BLM has been particularly aggressive in using eminent domain for many reasons - habitat preservation/endangered species, recreation, public good, etc., so no doubt there is a backlash. No doubt there is abuse on both ends of the scale.

I'm not believing either side in these complex issues until I know all the facts and that would take a very, very long time to sort out. And someone unbiased, which seems to be a very hard thing to find these days.

[Marc40a]

RE: The Bundys, the BLM, etc..

This article is exceptional:

https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.7/sage...law/print_view


There's a faith/ divine right thread that is heavily woven through this Anti-BLM/Government perspective.

It's fascinating and mildly disturbing.

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by Marc40a

RE: The Bundys, the BLM, etc..

This article is exceptional:

https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.7/sage...law/print_view


There's a faith/ divine right thread that is heavily woven through this Anti-BLM/Government perspective.

It's fascinating and mildly disturbing.

Just finished this podcast/Longreads series about the Sagebrush Rebellion and particularly, the Bundy family. Highly recommended:

https://longreads.com/bundyville/?ut...eid=f0523e0d3b

[redir]

Originally Posted by p nut

I ride in the mountains quite a bit as well. While I’ve never seen a mountain lion, I’ve seen tracks and that back of neck hair raising “something’s watching me” moments.

I don’t know if this works. But I’ve got eyes on the back of my head now.

If I saw that out on the trail I'd probably run

[gemship]

Originally Posted by KidWok

This incident hit a bit too close to home. I live in Seattle. SJ worked at the shop my partner and I go to for e bike purchasing and service. They (this person identified as non-binary gender) were close friends with some of my cycling buddies. I've oftentimes ridden in the area where they were killed.

I've resisted the urge to try and understand the situation...why it happened, what was up with the mountain lion, etc. Just tragic...

Tai

Just to put this bizarre tragedy in perspective. The local to New England news told this story of a Bear finding it's way into a car. I guess the door closed behind it and the bear got really terrified. ripped the whole inside of the car to shreds right down to metal in some spots and denting it all up. It looked to be a total loss on a newish suv. I dunno but strange things happen. Particularly out in God's country. Having said that we humans are our own worst enemies whether we tread light or hard. To an extent we really take our own chances out in the wilderness. Hate to be that guy but it should be noted that we over populate this earth species wise. I feel for the poor cat in that regard but whats a bro to do?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Marc40a

RE: The Bundys, the BLM, etc..

This article is exceptional:

https://www.hcn.org/issues/50.7/sage...law/print_view


There's a faith/ divine right thread that is heavily woven through this Anti-BLM/Government perspective.

It's fascinating and mildly disturbing.

It IS fascinating but more than 'mildly' disturbing..downright scary, IMHO.

[gdw]

Originally Posted by gemship

Just to put this bizarre tragedy in perspective. The local to New England news told this story of a Bear finding it's way into a car. I guess the door closed behind it and the bear got really terrified. ripped the whole inside of the car to shreds right down to metal in some spots and denting it all up. It looked to be a total loss on a newish suv. I dunno but strange things happen.

Actually bears getting trapped in vehicles is pretty common and the incident usually ends with the vehicle being totalled.
https://m.theepochtimes.com/uplift/b...r_2497959.html

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by gemship

the bear got really terrified. ripped the whole inside of the car to shreds right down to metal in some spots and denting it all up. It looked to be a total loss on a newish suv.

Originally Posted by gdw

Actually bears getting trapped in vehicles is pretty common and the incident usually ends with the vehicle being totalled.

When I was in Markleeville CA (to do the Death Ride in 2010) the innkeeper told us explicitly, emphatically, and repeatedly "Do not leave any food in your vehicles!"

Apparently some idiot ignored those warnings: We woke up one morning to find the car parked next to ours had its rear window smashed, the hatchback completely ripped off the hinges, and the entire back seat shredded into little more than a pile of foam and upholstery shards.

They'd left a watermelon in the car.

[mjb266]

Originally Posted by KidWok

This incident hit a bit too close to home. I live in Seattle. SJ worked at the shop my partner and I go to for e bike purchasing and service. They (this person identified as non-binary gender) were close friends with some of my cycling buddies. I've oftentimes ridden in the area where they were killed.

I've resisted the urge to try and understand the situation...why it happened, what was up with the mountain lion, etc. Just tragic...

Tai

So I'm just up the road, and while I don't have the interpersonal relationship that you do, this hits home as well. We have three small kids (3, 5, &7) and we live way out in the foothills. The neighbors we telling us about how they saw a female with a kitten and another long individual on a game camera set up not 1 mile from our house. I know that they have been there forever and want nothing to do with me or my kids, but it does recalibrate things a bit.

I don't want the cats to go away, but it is creepy. I'm sorry for your loss.