OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[Louis]

Obviously the technology (esp battery-related) is still changing at a pretty good clip. Hopefully 5 years from now an EV's battery will have significantly more range, cost less, and last longer. Exactly how much remains to be seen.

I seem to remember a few years ago reading about one group that was investigating storing energy in a big, heavy flywheel in the car. Imagine what would happen in a crash.

[kppolich]

Originally Posted by Louis

Obviously the technology (esp battery-related) is still changing at a pretty good clip. Hopefully 5 years from now an EV's battery will have significantly more range, cost less, and last longer. Exactly how much remains to be seen.

I seem to remember a few years ago reading about one group that was investigating storing energy in a big, heavy flywheel in the car. Imagine what would happen in a crash.

Better or worse than what happens to a full tank of gas in a crash?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by kppolich

Better or worse than what happens to a full tank of gas in a crash?

Depends.

[rice rocket]

I'm here for the depreciated cars...I've never purchased a car new.


What's worth picking up second hand?

[Louis]

Originally Posted by rice rocket

What's worth picking up second hand?

Not a pick-up, unless it has a whole bunch of miles on it.

[PSC]

We have the standard Tesla model 3, not long range and we have had no issues with range or any other problems that people are talking about (drove from Tacoma, WA to CO, no problem). Tesla is very good about monitoring your car, a couple months ago the car told us to schedule an appointing for a battery problem. My wife brought the car in and they said they were going to replace the battery, as it had dropped below a certain threshold and they were going to fix it (gave us a loaner and all). Like to see automakers who sell ICE vehicles do that, your engine isn't performing properly, we'll replace it. Tesla has its problems, but overall it has been great. One thing Tesla does have is a great charging network, I wouldn't buy an EV that couldn't use their networks. Tesla is going to make its money off of every other car company going to the North American charging standard. They will own the majority of the "reliable"charging stations in the US, it's going to take a while for others to catch. I feel like a dinosaur every time I get into my Volvo XC70, as the Tesla feels so much more efficient at everything it does.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by Louis

Obviously the technology (esp battery-related) is still changing at a pretty good clip. Hopefully 5 years from now an EV's battery will have significantly more range, cost less, and last longer. Exactly how much remains to be seen.

I seem to remember a few years ago reading about one group that was investigating storing energy in a big, heavy flywheel in the car. Imagine what would happen in a crash.

The Audi R18 e-tron quattro race car used a flywheel energy recovery system produced by Williams Engineering and won the Le Mans 24 with it.

There were surely a few shunts involving the various R18 race cars over the seasons they were raced but I don't recall any issues caused by the flywheel.

Here's a good article on it:

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/...ers-explained/

[merckxman]

"Tesla plans to lay off more than 10 percent of its work force in an effort to cut costs, Elon Musk, the automaker’s chief executive, told employees on Monday. The job cuts, amounting to about 14,000 people, come as the company faces increasing competition and declining sales."

[Carbonita]

"Between 2018 and 2022, the region's carbon emissions fell by 1.8% each year, which the Berkeley researchers concluded was almost exclusively owed to drivers switching to electric vehicles, according to a study published in the journal Environmental Science & Technology"

https://m.slashdot.org/story/427234

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by Carbonita

"Between 2018 and 2022, the region's carbon emissions fell by 1.8% each year, which the Berkeley researchers concluded was almost exclusively owed to drivers switching to electric vehicles, according to a study published in the journal Environmental Science & Technology"

https://m.slashdot.org/story/427234

By what margin did their airborne particulate count increase - the old fashioned type of pollution, and not the plant food so many are concerned about - I wonder?

EVs produce a huge amount of particulate pollution from their tires.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by BdaGhisallo

EVs produce a huge amount of particulate pollution from their tires.

1) Compared to diesel particulate pollution I wonder.

2) Actually I find this at odds in my brain. I say this as my Wifes Bolt tires have 34k on them and have 1/2 the original thread depth measured?

So where/what is the origin of this data point? I am squarely in the BS corner with empirical experience data point to the contrary.

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by robt57

1) Compared to diesel particulate pollution I wonder.

2) Actually I find this at odds in my brain. I say this as my Wifes Bolt tires have 34k on them and have 1/2 the original thread depth measured?

So where/what is the origin of this data point? I am squarely in the BS corner with empirical experience data point to the contrary.

Mostly anecdotal based on the fact that EVs are heavier.

I wonder how much we offset that carbon "savings" in the next few years when we build AI datacenters faster than we can build cars.

[jimcav]

all 3 contribute to PM (particulate matter) pollution. Very aggressive drivers are going to wear tires faster and pollute more. Friends who have EVs are not going through tires faster than I do in my truck (but I do accelerate to the given speed limit quickly, brake late, carry speed through corners, etc).

Regenerative braking for nearly all EV, and drum brakes for many EVs, means far, far less brake dust PM. And of course EV has no PM via tailpipe.

Common sense and real-world observations and discussions regards my neighbors' EV's tells me the "results" mentioned in media are either highly exaggerated or some worst-case extrapolation of data being falsely reported as typical or average.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by robt57

1) Compared to diesel particulate pollution I wonder.

2) Actually I find this at odds in my brain. I say this as my Wifes Bolt tires have 34k on them and have 1/2 the original thread depth measured?

So where/what is the origin of this data point? I am squarely in the BS corner with empirical experience data point to the contrary.

The study that brought this to light contrasted the EV particulate pollution to tailpipe emissions from gas powered vehicles. Now, I don't know how the comparison would be to diesel particulate pollution.

Here's the study: https://www.emissionsanalytics.com/n...n-losing-tread

And here's a NY Post article summarizing some of the findings:

https://nypost.com/2024/03/05/busine...ronment-study/

The study, published by emissions data firm Emission Analytics, was released in 2022 but has attracted a wave of attention this week after being cited in a Wall Street Journal op-ed Sunday.

It found that brakes and tires on EVs release 1,850 times more particle pollution compared to modern tailpipes, which have “efficient” exhaust filters, bringing gas-powered vehicles’ emissions to new lows.

Today, most vehicle-related pollution comes from tire wear.

Emission Analytics found that tire wear emissions on half a metric tonne of battery weight in an EV are more than 400 times as great as direct exhaust particulate emissions.

“You have a tradeoff. At the moment, the political agenda is very strong towards climate change reduction. EVs do deliver about a 50% reduction in CO2 — that [affects] climate change.”

“But you have this downside of EVs that increases particle pollution. Air pollution is about what we breathe and the health effects,” Molden said, assuring that the toxins in tires have much less impact on climate change than they do on “what we eat and are ingesting.”

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Long story short - EVs are described as zero emission vehicles but they certainly aren't zero pollution vehicles and the pollution they do produce is the kind that can cause real harm to humans.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by merckxman

"Tesla plans to lay off more than 10 percent of its work force in an effort to cut costs, Elon Musk, the automaker’s chief executive, told employees on Monday. The job cuts, amounting to about 14,000 people, come as the company faces increasing competition and declining sales."

Yikes. Beneath the skin they are a leader in technology but their competition is definitely catching up and other brands have less baggage in terms of brand image, which is tied closely to the toxic CEO. Plus, the cars are kind of expensive appliances. But I just drove mine uneventfully from Chicago to Minneapolis this morning. Easy peasy. So the tech works.