The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by Erikg

Chainline? I wonder if the chain line might be too far inward on the front sprocket? Is it also an Ekar crank?

I've always assumed the chainlink is correct until now as I'm using all Ekar on a Pursuit Allroad frame. I even had Carl's team install the bottom bracket cups as they were out of stock most everywhere. But just to make sure I gave it an eyeball a few minutes ago and the chainring is perfectly aligned with the middle cog.

Thanks for weighing in!

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by MXLeader

What else should I be looking out for?

Every great once in a while, during hard efforts on the road or on gravel, the chain will get thrown off the chainring to the crank arm side when shifting to a harder gear. This only happens when shifting from the 15 to 14 or 14 to 13 tooth cogs.

I've been using Ekar for about 7,500 miles on my Pursuit All Road. As others have noted, derailleur adjustment can be a bit tricky with the extra narrow 13-speed spacing but it feels pretty much spot on with no hesitation up the cassette and a reassuring "clunk" when shifting to a harder gear. Derailleur hanger alignment is spot on using an Abbey Tools HAG. The upper jockey wheel adjustment is ~1 or 2 mm w/o any noise.

I use a 44-tooth chainring and 10-44 cassette which is pretty much perfect for the short and steep hills here in midcoast Maine. Over the 7.5K miles I've had the bike, I rotate through 3 waxed chains and rotate through cassettes when I change wheel sets. I have even used two different 44-tooth chainrings as I've moved from 175mm to 170mm cranks. The chain is at the minimum length as I'll sometimes swap the front chainring to a 40-tooth for a particularly hilly ride or in the off-season. I just compared the chain stretch of my first two chains to a brand new one and there is minimal wear. The rear cassette cogs don't look worn, bent, damaged and neither do the chainrings.

My current thinking is that I may need to be more conscious of where in the pedal stroke I'm shifting and maybe back off on the power a bit more just for a moment while shifting.

I've done all the troubleshooting that I can think of. What might I be missing? I've even thought about installing a chain keeper as a last resort. Thoughts?

I ride a number of 1X bikes, none of the bikes roll without a chain guide, no mater if the bike is using a narrow wide chain ring and or a clutch rear derailleur. I consider a chain guide a mandatory bike component. I learned the hard way after a number of droped chains at events.

The only 1X bikes that don't use a chain guide are my track bikes.

Favourite guide

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by MXLeader

I've always assumed the chainlink is correct until now as I'm using all Ekar on a Pursuit Allroad frame. I even had Carl's team install the bottom bracket cups as they were out of stock most everywhere. But just to make sure I gave it an eyeball a few minutes ago and the chainring is perfectly aligned with the middle cog.

Thanks for weighing in!

You know, I have only thrown my chain once, and that was in the middle of a race at the worst time possible. I had waxed my chain before the race and as you mentioned you wax and rotate your chains, could there be a link?

[MXLeader]

That K-edge guide is one that's on my radar (but I'm not conceding to this issue just yet!) Seems like a solid design if not a bit pricey. My frame doesn't have a front derailleur mount so I'd need the bottle cage mount version or find a band that'll fit my seat tube.

As far as the potential for a chain waxing correlation, I'll keep an eye out for that. Admittedly, out of the 5 or 6 times that the chain was thrown, my first instinct was to drip some Silca Super Secret on the chain after the ride. But it happens so rarely that it's difficult to make that correlation so far.

After about 300 miles since my last 1/4 turn derailleur adjustment and being more conscious about shifting under heavier loads , I haven't had a chain drop. Too early to be certain, but it makes sense to me that the gentler down shifting and less force on the pedals would change the magnitude of the vibration along the chain. Even so, one would think that the derailleur clutch would be enough to prevent this issue.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by MXLeader

That K-edge guide is one that's on my radar (but I'm not conceding to this issue just yet!) Seems like a solid design if not a bit pricey. My frame doesn't have a front derailleur mount so I'd need the bottle cage mount version or find a band that'll fit my seat tube.

As far as the potential for a chain waxing correlation, I'll keep an eye out for that. Admittedly, out of the 5 or 6 times that the chain was thrown, my first instinct was to drip some Silca Super Secret on the chain after the ride. But it happens so rarely that it's difficult to make that correlation so far.

After about 300 miles since my last 1/4 turn derailleur adjustment and being more conscious about shifting under heavier loads , I haven't had a chain drop. Too early to be certain, but it makes sense to me that the gentler down shifting and less force on the pedals would change the magnitude of the vibration along the chain. Even so, one would think that the derailleur clutch would be enough to prevent this issue.

I will try to replicate your situation on my ride today - sprinting (on road) while shifting down from the 14T to the 13T and the 13T to the 12T. I have a 40T front ring and 9-42 cassette with about 10-12K miles on the system.

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

I will try to replicate your situation on my ride today - sprinting (on road) while shifting down from the 14T to the 13T and the 13T to the 12T. I have a 40T front ring and 9-42 cassette with about 10-12K miles on the system.

Thank you. I just tracked down my last chain throw in Strava. It happened as I was accelerating over the crest of a small hill, on decent asphalt, at a cadence of 97 with a power output of 450 and dropping. I didn't go back and check other events but that seems about typical.

[marciero]

To me, a chain guide on a 1x is no different than a "chain keeper" on a 2x - a properly designed and adjusted drive train should not need it. That does not mean that you will never EVER drop a chain. On the other hand I would think you can adjust the clutch tight enough to all but eliminate the possibility. Is that not the case? I'm new to 1x (GRX 12) but so far no dropped chains.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by marciero

a properly designed and adjusted drive train should not need it. That does not mean that you will never EVER drop a chain. On the other hand I would think you can adjust the clutch tight enough to all but eliminate the possibility. Is that not the case? I'm new to 1x (GRX 12) but so far no dropped chains.

No experience with ekar, but agree that a properly designed 1x drivetrain shouldn't need. Haven't used a chain keeper on my 1x MTB Shimano and Sram drivetrains in a decade. And haven't needed on Sram 1x gravel or Shimano GRX.

If Ekar keeps dropping chains, something is wrong.

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

No experience with ekar, but agree that a properly designed 1x drivetrain shouldn't need. Haven't used a chain keeper on my 1x MTB Shimano and Sram drivetrains in a decade. And haven't needed on Sram 1x gravel or Shimano GRX.

If Ekar keeps dropping chains, something is wrong.

I said the same thing to my self, it happens so infrequently during normal everday riding I could live with it. Start paying for events, preperation and travel time to events, equipment damage, injury prevention and the price of a chain keeper and its maintaince becomes cost effective.

[KonaSS]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

I said the same thing to my self, it happens so infrequently during normal everday riding I could live with it. Start paying for events, the preperation and travel time to events, the price and assurance of a chain keeper and its maintaince becomes cost effective.

100% correct. Cheap insurance. I race. I prepare for months and travel. I agree with you if I ever dropped a chain. I just haven't on 1x. Last chain drops have all been 2x.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by MXLeader

Thank you. I just tracked down my last chain throw in Strava. It happened as I was accelerating over the crest of a small hill, on decent asphalt, at a cadence of 97 with a power output of 450 and dropping. I didn't go back and check other events but that seems about typical.

I tried, but was unable to drop a chain. My cadence was probably a bit lower but my power was about the same. The good news is that riding like that got me PR all over my ride!

The only thing you might want to do is to adjust your limit screw so that it just goes into the 9 but that is it.

Otherwise, if the chain, rings and cassette are good, along with hanger, I got no other idea what could be causing it.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by m_sasso

I said the same thing to my self, it happens so infrequently during normal everday riding I could live with it. Start paying for events, preperation and travel time to events, equipment damage, injury prevention and the price of a chain keeper and its maintaince becomes cost effective.

I see your point. My only chain drop occurred in a race and I was with the lead group. Once I stopped to put the chain back on, the group was gone and I never saw them again.

[MXLeader]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

I tried, but was unable to drop a chain. My cadence was probably a bit lower but my power was about the same. The good news is that riding like that got me PR all over my ride!

The only thing you might want to do is to adjust your limit screw so that it just goes into the 9 but that is it.

Otherwise, if the chain, rings and cassette are good, along with hanger, I got no other idea what could be causing it.

Thanks for the efforts!

I spent a ride focused on trying to duplicate the chain throw, too. Probably made about 50 short efforts and I wasn't able to get the chain to come off. I think the primary reason is that last quarter-turn adjustment on the rear derailleur softened the drop into the 14 and 13 tooth cogs.

That said, I also noticed a ton of upper chain vibration when shifting to a harder gear at the higher power levels. It seems like I've developed the bad habit of shifting with the thumb lever at the same time my dominant leg comes around bottom dead center, the weakest part of my pedal stroke (I have a bad left knee and usually a 45/55 left/right power ratio). I changed my shifting timing a bit before bdc and then after bdc and noticed significantly less chain vibration. So now I'm positing that my chain throw problem was caused by the slightly off derailleur adjustment, when I shifted gears and that I was doing hard efforts without easing off the pedals a bit when shifting.

I'm going with this hypotheses until proven wrong.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by MXLeader

Thanks for the efforts!

I spent a ride focused on trying to duplicate the chain throw, too. Probably made about 50 short efforts and I wasn't able to get the chain to come off. I think the primary reason is that last quarter-turn adjustment on the rear derailleur softened the drop into the 14 and 13 tooth cogs.

That said, I also noticed a ton of upper chain vibration when shifting to a harder gear at the higher power levels. It seems like I've developed the bad habit of shifting with the thumb lever at the same time my dominant leg comes around bottom dead center, the weakest part of my pedal stroke (I have a bad left knee and usually a 45/55 left/right power ratio). I changed my shifting timing a bit before bdc and then after bdc and noticed significantly less chain vibration. So now I'm positing that my chain throw problem was caused by the slightly off derailleur adjustment, when I shifted gears and that I was doing hard efforts without easing off the pedals a bit when shifting.

I'm going with this hypotheses until proven wrong.

That could be it. The one negative (and I consider this minor) is that with a mechanical drivetrain - especially one with 13 speeds, cable stretch might have a bigger impact on these sort of things. Glad you got it sorted.

[Gwerziou]

Any thoughts on Ekar GT vs Ekar shifters? The GT shifters seem like they might actually be better than the originals. No heavier, no different features, and the claim is for a slightly smaller, more ergonomic shape. Although it isn't something that bothered me, the Ekar GT hoods have done away with the “bump” under the palm.