OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[fourflys]

yep, for sure.. but there is a difference between financing a $40k Tesla (or cheaper Bolt) and THEN, ideally, needing a garage to charge it in so it charges "right" and the single mom with 2 kids, working a couple jobs just to make the rent on a 1 BR apt and car payment on a crap car so she can get to those jobs 20 miles away because she can't afford to actually live close to work.. that EV parked in the garage is for sure a place of privilege.. as is the person who can finance a $50k vehicle at $500+ a month or was able to buy with cash.. I'm extremely greatful I'm in a spot of privilege as described above, but I also realize most are not..

is my example a bit sensationalistic? probably, but is reality for many.. one of my points of my previous post is that the EV is supposed to be great for the environment and help get us to a better place for the climate, but that's a tough sell to folks in the latter position above..

Originally Posted by benb

The real privilege is actually owning your car.

You gotta realize as you drive/cycle/walk around 80% of the sparkly new cars you see are financed. Most of the people need 5+ years to pay them off, a lot of people never really ever get loan free cause they replace the cars before they manage to pay them off and they have revolving loans forever. US consumers have $1.6T of auto debt and the average person is borrowing $40k these days when they buy a new car.

If you read forums, reddit, etc.. EV fans are definitely part of this insanity, you'll regularly see posts from people who financed a Tesla last year and then changed their mind 12 months later and now they have a Hyundai EV they financed. Then you get people worrying about resale and such as if that matters at all versus just holding onto a car till the loans are a distant memory.

That whole strategy where the car sales guy says not to focus on the cost but to focus on the monthly payment? It seems to work exceptionally well on the average buyer.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by fourflys

so this post has nothing to do with any particular person on this thread..

As I was sitting at lunch thinking about this thread it dawned on me that the whole garage discussion is one of a very privileged position.. and not that owing an EV isn't BTW..

Again, not a dig at anyone who has a EV or a garage to put it in, but having to have a garage to adequately (whatever you want that to mean) charge your EV is a pretty big ask of many (maybe most?) folks in the world.. how many people living in Chicago actually have a garage, regardless if they park their car in it our not?

I say all this since EVs are supposed to be one of the ways forward to help combat climate change..

I acknowledge that I am indeed in a privileged position. Not everyone can have a garage. Nor can everyone afford an EV, many of which are a notch above their ICE counterparts in terms of cost. I acknowledge all of this.

It takes a non-trivial investment just to get wired for charging at home. Indeed, many people can’t afford it.

40 or more years ago personal computers were similarly expensive and unattainable. Today billions of people have smartphones that are immensely more capable than personal computers of even a decade ago.

Hopefully the technology and infrastructure evolve in such a way that more folks who want an EV can have one.

Ironically, when I retire, if I can be where I want to be, I may wish to live without any type of personal automobile at all.

Originally Posted by zap

?

My neighbor (also a cyclist) took delivery of a Y about 2 weeks after you. When Tesla announced the price drop in January '23 they said they got some US$,$$$ back.

Very interesting. I’d be curious to know more if you know more. I was never offered anything and I did investigate a bit. I wonder if the change of year made any difference.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by benb

That whole strategy where the car sales guy says not to focus on the cost but to focus on the monthly payment? It seems to work exceptionally well on the average buyer.

Indeed. They don't like me very much I will tell you. Even when they do that I add up the numbers in my head and calc approx interest and say that is X for the car and too much. But not all have a math brain. And I've never financed more than around 20k even on 45k car. And that was 2.59 APR. Even that APR on 20k more is deal breaker for me on cost. I know where I can play.

And I ain't playing @ 7% on even 10k. I went back to a used car for cash to get off the train being retired now.

[Taken out repetitive content, sorry]

I helped my Sis buy a new car 2023. The ICE only AWD Kona was 10k less than the Hybrid she was shopping. I told her the lower payment and more gas use/cost will be less than the payment of the +10k. And she won't need a HV battery refurb in 8 years. And this after I talked her into doing it before the 9 year old c-max battery coded and she'd have no trade.

It is usually just math I figure...

80s, I remember folks selling cheap their Lincolns and Big Wagons after over paying for Honda Accords to save gas. I drove some nice cheap gas guzzlers I $tole or a few years.

[old fat man]

This thread is 85 pages. And I'm pretty sure robt57 has told us about selling his Pacifica for a profit on every single one of those pages

[robt57]

Originally Posted by old fat man

This thread is 85 pages. And I'm pretty sure robt57 has told us about selling his Pacifica for a profit on every single one of those pages

I don't think this will happen for me again in my life, vehicle win fall et al.

Seriously, I'd say you are in the low percentile as far as folks that have read out so many pages to notice. So I figured it may be a new audience every X pages.

I want every one to know how I pay for my bikes. And not every single page I hope.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by old fat man

This thread is 85 pages. And I'm pretty sure robt57 has told us about selling his Pacifica for a profit on every single one of those pages

You're just po'd that you weren't able to buy it at such a great price.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Just to clarify for the EV curious, EV’s don’t need to be parked in garages.

[Mike V]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2Nzq...E1MWVjZGVmZQ==

[saab2000]

For context, I think many of the folks affected here are ride-share drivers. I’m fairly certain that the two big ones, Uber and Lyft, offer lease or purchase deals on Teslas, often the entry level single-motor Model 3. That by itself is unimportant because they all charge the same way. Many of these drivers don’t charge at home (in or out of a garage) but use the Supercharger network because it’s fast. I don’t know exactly what happened here but the combination of snow then extreme cold and greatly reduced efficiency during these conditions led to the worst possible outcome. I feel bad for the drivers whose cars get stranded because they’re stuck and maybe even get their cars towed to an impound situation which is both expensive and inconvenient for folks whose livelihood depends on these cars being available to them daily.

[zap]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Very interesting. I’d be curious to know more if you know more. I was never offered anything and I did investigate a bit. I wonder if the change of year made any difference.

I do not.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Diesel doesn't burn/explode like gas. There's a reason many people prefer diesel inboards over gas.

I like the the torque of Diesel motor. I had a few GM wagons after the Target master motors replaced the original garbage GM put in these. Some deals i could not pass up. I even bought a totaled Olds for the fresh Target Motor and put it in a freshly painted Delta 88 that was my wife's car for 5 years.

TDi outta Germany always got my attention. A friend has a VW wagon TDi Manual with some turbo toying I could drive easily. For me I could not get past the prices and low supply when I needed to shop. Quattro 6 speed TDi Audi, yes please.

[Onno]

Originally Posted by robt57

I like the the torque of Diesel motor. I had a few GM wagons after the Target master motors replaced the original garbage GM put in these. Some deals i could not pass up. I even bought a totaled Olds for the fresh Target Motor and put it in a freshly painted Delta 88 that was my wife's car for 5 years.

TDi outta Germany always got my attention. A friend has a VW wagon TDi Manual with some turbo toying I could drive easily. For me I could not get past the prices and low supply when I needed to shop. Quattro 6 speed TDi Audi, yes please.

I owned 2 VW TDI vehicles, first when I wasn't really fully aware of their polluting potential, and then when I thought (i.e. bought) that they were kind of "clean". I also loved driving them, but would never consider owning another.

[benb]

Originally Posted by saab2000

For context, I think many of the folks affected here are ride-share drivers. I’m fairly certain that the two big ones, Uber and Lyft, offer lease or purchase deals on Teslas, often the entry level single-motor Model 3. That by itself is unimportant because they all charge the same way. Many of these drivers don’t charge at home (in or out of a garage) but use the Supercharger network because it’s fast. I don’t know exactly what happened here but the combination of snow then extreme cold and greatly reduced efficiency during these conditions led to the worst possible outcome. I feel bad for the drivers whose cars get stranded because they’re stuck and maybe even get their cars towed to an impound situation which is both expensive and inconvenient for folks whose livelihood depends on these cars being available to them daily.

Different story but I would love to hear about how this works out for these people.

That seems like a lot of car to pay for and use for doing a job that is notorious for not paying enough to make ends meet.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

Different story but I would love to hear about how this works out for these people.

That seems like a lot of car to pay for and use for doing a job that is notorious for not paying enough to make ends meet.

I would agree.. most of the Ubers I've been in have been ok, but certainly were high-milage, cheaper sedans/SUVs or hybrids.. to be fair, I don't Uber that often, so YMMV for sure..

[robt57]

Originally Posted by Onno

I owned 2 VW TDI vehicles, first when I wasn't really fully aware of their polluting potential, and then when I thought (i.e. bought) that they were kind of "clean". I also loved driving them, but would never consider owning another.

Nail in coffin for me as well.