OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

or AAA will do it for you if have them and it's too cold for you.. sorry man, I spent 6 yrs in Alaska (and 19 yrs in central Indiana), "it's too cold" just doesn't register with me..

The point is, cold weather can disable any car, not just EVs. Installing a new battery (or waiting for AAA to do) sounds more inconvenient and more expensive than waiting for a an EV to slow charge.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

The point is, cold weather can disable any car, not just EVs.

agree and the cold in Alaska would eat ICE vehicle batteries (about one every two or three years).. BUT my point was, if you live in that environment, you can have a pretty easy fix, fairly quickly.. an EV will be slow to charge EVERY time in the cold and have less range (have to charge more often) it sounds like.. if you live in someplace like Fairbanks where it gets something like -40, you'll need a block heater.. I would genuinely be curious how EVs do in that environment..

[benb]

I was reading some of the stuff about Chicago.

It sounds like one factor was gig workers driving Teslas being concentrated in an area and at the same time being dependent on the chargers. It would not be the same for you as an owner if you had your own home charger. The gig workers were also apparently running their company app for navigation instead of using the cars system, and the company app doesn't plan out charging stops and trigger the car to get the battery ready for a fast charge.

It does sound like there is/was an issue with the charging cords getting clogged up with snow and ice though. Gas stations seem to have this figured out better by putting a roof over the fill stations, and gasoline also tends to wash/melt snow and ice away as well.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by fourflys

agree and the cold in Alaska would eat ICE vehicle batteries (about one every two or three years).. BUT my point was, if you live in that environment, you can have a pretty easy fix, fairly quickly.. an EV will be slow to charge EVERY time in the cold and have less range (have to charge more often) it sounds like.. if you live in someplace like Fairbanks where it gets something like -40, you'll need a block heater.. I would genuinely be curious how EVs do in that environment..

Charging isn’t slower in cold weather if you charge an EV overnight in a garage, like most owners do.

[benb]

Originally Posted by fourflys

agree and the cold in Alaska would eat ICE vehicle batteries (about one every two or three years).. BUT my point was, if you live in that environment, you can have a pretty easy fix, fairly quickly.. an EV will be slow to charge EVERY time in the cold and have less range (have to charge more often) it sounds like.. if you live in someplace like Fairbanks where it gets something like -40, you'll need a block heater.. I would genuinely be curious how EVs do in that environment..

They seem to do very well in the Nordic countries which are very cold.

Part of the issue in Chicago:

- Superchargers are outside in the cold
- Cords got snow/ice in the ports and were frozen up
- Too many drivers in one place
- Cars were not being used in a way that caused the car to heat the battery up prior to charging
- Once the cars are stuck waiting in lines they were letting the battery get really cold

It sounds like if you're charging at home none of these are issues and if you're on a road trip and using the cars built in route planner it makes sure the battery is ready for a fast charge when you stop.

If you sat there in a line and the car isn't keeping the battery warm for some reason when you do get to plug in the charging curve is slower to keep the battery healthy.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

They seem to do very well in the Nordic countries which are very cold.

Part of the issue in Chicago:

- Superchargers are outside in the cold
- Cords got snow/ice in the ports and were frozen up
- Too many drivers in one place
- Cars were not being used in a way that caused the car to heat the battery up prior to charging
- Once the cars are stuck waiting in lines they were letting the battery get really cold

It sounds like if you're charging at home none of these are issues and if you're on a road trip and using the cars built in route planner it makes sure the battery is ready for a fast charge when you stop.

If you sat there in a line and the car isn't keeping the battery warm for some reason when you do get to plug in the charging curve is slower to keep the battery healthy.

fair enough.. I'm sure I'll have an EV one day in the future, but that day is not today.. My in-laws have an EV6 and it is a nice car..

on a note about charging in a garage- it would interesting to see a stat on how many garages have space for the car to park/charge inside.. I know here in Sonoma Country when I'm out riding or driving and see a garage open, they are mostly filled with stuff where a car cannot part inside.. of course the weather is conducive to parking outside, so..

[Polyglot]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

I find this debate about cold weather EVs interesting since 82% of new car sales in Norway are electric.

Contrary to common belief, it does not get overly cold in most of Norway. Even in Tromso above the Arctic circle, the temperature will not normally go below 10° F. I have travelled throughout Norway in the winter months and never encountered temperatures like those recent temperatures in Chicago. Norwegian weather is more or less ideal for Ev's, with no severely low and most importantly, no severely high temperatures. Ideal temperatures for EV's would be in the range of about 40-60°F. All EV's should have no noticeable problem handling temperatures in the range from about 10-90°F. If you often stray from those ranges, you will see slow charge rates and faster degradation of the batteries. The same holds true with all batteries, including your cell phone battery.

[benb]

Having a garage and filling it with junk and then not being able to park your car inside is not really any car's issue, that's something an individual owner needs to take personal responsibility.

Trying to sell EVs to people who don't own a garage where they can install their own personal charger is an issue IMO though.

I am curious if the chargers in other countries that are cold tend to have a cover over them. I have never seen a covered charger other than some that were inside parking garages. I have co-workers in Canada and Finland if I get a chance I'll ask. And it absolutely does get really really cold in Finland, one of our offices is at the arctic circle. It's -16F at the more southern of our 2 Finland offices right now.

I also recently parked in a garage that had a big sign at the entrance that Chevy Bolts of all variants and years were forbidden from parking there, possibly from the recall, although I wonder how many are actually on the road that still have an issue.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by adub

They have a more mature infrastructure for charging.

EV's are also massively subsidized by the govt in Norway - up to $27K per vehicle in subsidies. That will encourage some sales, I would imagine.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

Having a garage and filling it with junk and then not being able to park your car inside is not really any car's issue, that's something an individual owner needs to take personal responsibility.

Trying to sell EVs to people who don't own a garage where they can install their own personal charger is an issue IMO though.

I am curious if the chargers in other countries that are cold tend to have a cover over them. I have never seen a covered charger other than some that were inside parking garages. I have co-workers in Canada and Finland if I get a chance I'll ask.

I also recently parked in a garage that had a big sign at the entrance that Chevy Bolts of all variants and years were forbidden from parking there, possibly from the recall, although I wonder how many are actually on the road that still have an issue.

agree, not the car's issue, just a reality if someone owns an EV and doesn't have space in the garage to park it..

my father-in-law actually has his charger mounted on the piller between one of the doors (one of those garages that have three doors) and he built a box around it with a hidden door release.. pretty cool actually.. and he parks his cars outside as he uses is garage as a workshop.. but again, this is Sonoma County, so snow really isn't an issue

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by fourflys

fair enough.. I'm sure I'll have an EV one day in the future, but that day is not today.. My in-laws have an EV6 and it is a nice car..

on a note about charging in a garage- it would interesting to see a stat on how many garages have space for the car to park/charge inside.. I know here in Sonoma Country when I'm out riding or driving and see a garage open, they are mostly filled with stuff where a car cannot part inside.. of course the weather is conducive to parking outside, so..

If an EV can't charge in a garage and hold a car how will a gas powered car fit? It's not the fault of the technology if the homeowner is a hoarder and can't fit a car inside. The charger is smaller than hanging a hose in a garage on some hooks.

I charged up overnight last night easily. As noted, it's no different speed than it normally is. I suspect there is truth in the idea that some of the charging cables got plugged up with snow, though I don't know this. It is plausible. The cold weather does make them very rigid and difficult to hook to their larger assembly. If they end up on the ground it's clear that they could ice up. But a home charger is small.

Two notes: This photo was taken several weeks ago, before the significant snow event and major temperature dropoff of the past week.

Obligatory bike content.

[Ken Robb]

My pals who own Teslas tell me they have no idea what electricity costs them to charge 200 miles of driving. The model S can charge free at Tesla charging stations but the owner prefers the convenience of using the charger he put in his garage and he has never tried to calculate how much of his electric bill comes from charging his car.

The other family has a big house on a hill with LOTS of solar panels so his total electric bill is very low. That's a good thing because his Tesla is a Model 3 and I don't think they were offered the free charging that more expensive Teslas got.

With the mild climate in San Diego I suppose we might be the ideal palce to get max performance from EV batteries. OTOH we have VERY high electric rates so driving an EV here might not be a real bargain if the owner had to pay regular electric rates for all his charging.

[robt57]

This is a bad as place for this link as any. Also posted this in the cyber truck thread...

Tesla powered VW VS 911 GT3 RS


Porsche 911 GT3 RS v 450hp VW Beetle?! DRAG RACE

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Ken Robb

My pals who own Teslas tell me they have no idea what electricity costs them to charge 200 miles of driving. The model S can charge free at Tesla charging stations but the owner prefers the convenience of using the charger he put in his garage and he has never tried to calculate how much of his electric bill comes from charging his car.

The other family has a big house on a hill with LOTS of solar panels so his total electric bill is very low. That's a good thing because his Tesla is a Model 3 and I don't think they were offered the free charging that more expensive Teslas got.

With the mild climate in San Diego I suppose we might be the ideal palce to get max performance from EV batteries. OTOH we have VERY high electric rates so driving an EV here might not be a real bargain if the owner had to pay regular electric rates for all his charging.

I have also never tried to calculate how much of my total electric bill is from my car. But I can see how much usage I have and what each of those cost me.

I can see home charging, Tesla Supercharging, and "Other" which is at someone's home, so it's costing someone something but not me. It usually costs me dinner and drinks! But it's not shown here.

I can't charge at work except this past November when I was down in Dallas and they have chargers at HQ of my employer. I drove to Dallas. It was uneventful. Several significant charging sessions were at hotels and they also fall into the "Other" category. Twice I had to pay $10 for access to the chargers.

I can set the rates in the app. At home I pay $.12/KwH. At Superchargers it varies, but averages about $.36/KwH.

These are screenshots of the last rolling month and the last rolling year taken just now.

[Onno]

Originally Posted by saab2000

I have also never tried to calculate how much of my total electric bill is from my car. But I can see how much usage I have and what each of those cost me.

That data is pretty cool. I haven't figured out how to get that info for my Ioniq 5, but I'm sure that driving it is a lot cheaper than driving an ICE. For you about 800 kwh means about 2500 miles, correct? Dividing by $158 gives you about 16 miles per dollar, if I'm doing my math right. My at home charging costs are about 15c per kwh, so if I were only to charge at home, I'm getting about 22 miles per dollar. But I do a fair bit of my charging at work, where it's free, and the car also comes with 3 years of free fast charging at Electrify America, so in the long run, it's even cheaper, for now. That compares to about 8 miles per dollar for a similarly sized ICE SUV. Winter driving is more expensive because miles per kwh go down by about 30% (on average over the season).