Phil Gaimon's Olympic dream becomes $200,000 medical bill nightmare

[ripvanrando]

Food, housing, and medical care are Rights?

Not in my world view.

[redir]

Originally Posted by fried bake

The American health care system in one tweet. Attachment 1698029093


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had to fact check that to see if it was for real. Good lord we are screwed with an electorate dumb enough to put that in office.

[bicycletricycle]

Solutions can and have been found for these kinds of problems but it has to be legal first. Dormitories, tent cities, lots of roommates, etc. you aren’t going to live comfortably but it will keep you off the streets and more importantly keep you in the labor pool. Once you don’t have an address or recent work history getting back to work gets a lot harder.

I don’t know if you are actually interested in this. If you are information isn’t too hard to find.


[QUOTE=makoti;2964069]So if we were able to pay low skilled workers, say, $5 an hour, there would be less homelessness? Because there are lots of places to live on $200 a week?[

[bicycletricycle]

Originally Posted by redir

I had to fact check that to see if it was for real. Good lord we are screwed with an electorate dumb enough to put that in office.

Agreed

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by crappygator

Besides the ridiculous cost I hope he recovers and gets back to racing.

It's been over 2 years. He's been back on the bike for a long time.

[Dead Man]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

The language around human rights is strange, I still don't understand the basis for these rights. Can you explain it? Is it just whatever you want to declare as right? If so then everyone can play at that game.

I declare I have the right to the fruits of my labor.

Nobody really believes they have the obligation to help strangers with less. Their everyday actions prove it, especially of you live in the first world. You can't have a $1000 dollar bicycle for fun and believe this. Let's not get started on owning a car, house, etc.

How can you demand the right for an MRI when much of the world can't get basic medications?

As far as what is working or not working in different countries, those are interesting data points but these are not conclusive. Anyone could easily find a counterpoint and then it will devolve from there. People start from beliefs and then look for information to confirm it.

Everyday actions dont have to prove anything when we socialize public good. It isnt the individual citizens responsibility to personally see to the poor, its their responsibility to pay into the system that exists to benefit all and serve as a stopgap for people who fall... lest society just trample over them. Its part of the social contract. People in need are macro problems requiring macro solutions. So the cost of my bike means jack **** when ive spent my adult life paying a flat 16% federal income tax, plus state, year after year. It means im under no obligation as a humanist human to individually help homeless people out on the street- i pay professionals to do that.

It sounds like you want to benefit from the social contract while not paying the price of membership.. well, wouldnt that be nice? But you cant, so id just let that (irrational) notion go and accept reality here, man... you wanna be covered by the social contract/live in society, you pay dues.

There IS an alternative, and its a damn fair deal, and its how ive personally been living for a few years now... but you arent going to like it, when youre still convinced you ought to able to live in society without any obligation to society - get off the grid. Stop driving- or drive without a license, go 100% cash for both income and expense, close your bank accounts, terminate all relationships with social institutions and the government as a whole, sell all the rented-from-the-county land you "own," and get off the grid. And you can live next to the grid but not on it... this doesnt require moving to alaska, it just means paying cash direct to the owner for a rented house instead of "owning" or leasing property via the social contract (law). Or moving onto a sailboat or camper or yurt or whatever. Then you can keep all the fruits of your labor, basically consequence free... nobody is gonna come asking about you, as far as the IRS is concerned- you dont exist anymore.

Thats how you live your free, independent, free-market lifestyle, man. just keep in mind youre gonna be stuffed if you have an urgent medical problem or your income source burns out. Works for me tho! Incredibly liberated existence.


Oh yea - as to "rights" .... rights are no more and no less than exactly whatever humans' collective conscience declares they are. Its one of the truly unique things about us as a social animal species - declaration. We can declare life liberty n the pursuit of happiness are rights, and enforce it via the social contract.. likewise we can also declare medical, housing, clean water and food are rights, and enforce em rights via the social contract. That is how that works.

And as society grows and becomes much more prosperous, as we benefit from technology, as we develop the ability to actually take care of everyone, seems the majority are believing we bear the obligation to. Thems just the breaks, my dawg.

[chrismoustache]

Since homelessness has been mentioned, I'd like to comment that the reasons for a person being homeless can vary widely. Solutions are as complex and nuanced as those to improve our health care system.

[bicycletricycle]

"Socialized public good" programs are about as good in the long run as indulgences paid the catholic church and they function the same exact way. They let people feel like they have done their part when all they are really doing is buying themselves the relief of not feeling guilty and shoving the problem onto someone else's plate.

The social contract isn't that great of a theory of government. I think of the government as the local mafia .

You paying taxes does not mean you don't have to help people in need, this is the actual problem we are facing.

I do not want to get the benefit without paying for it. I pay a lot of taxes and use the services I have paid for. I would ideally want a world in which you could opt in our out of as many programs as possible. If you opt out you would not get the benefit, I prefer choice over force.

If people keep adding things to the list of what "taking care of everybody" means then we will never be able to take care of everybody. The list always outpaces the capacity.

I am glad you have admitted rights are actually the majority forcing their ideas onto the minority, at least it makes your argument clear and fits right in to my mafia theory of government.

Originally Posted by Dead Man

Everyday actions dont have to prove anything when we socialize public good. It isnt the individual citizens responsibility to personally see to the poor, its their responsibility to pay into the system that exists to benefit all and serve as a stopgap for people who fall... lest society just trample over them. Its part of the social contract. People in need are macro problems requiring macro solutions. So the cost of my bike means jack **** when ive spent my adult life paying a flat 16% federal income tax, plus state, year after year. It means im under no obligation as a humanist human to individually help homeless people out on the street- i pay professionals to do that.

It sounds like you want to benefit from the social contract while not paying the price of membership.. well, wouldnt that be nice? But you cant, so id just let that (irrational) notion go and accept reality here, man... you wanna be covered by the social contract/live in society, you pay dues.

There IS an alternative, and its a damn fair deal, and its how ive personally been living for a few years now... but you arent going to like it, when youre still convinced you ought to able to live in society without any obligation to society - get off the grid. Stop driving- or drive without a license, go 100% cash for both income and expense, close your bank accounts, terminate all relationships with social institutions and the government as a whole, sell all the rented-from-the-county land you "own," and get off the grid. And you can live next to the grid but not on it... this doesnt require moving to alaska, it just means paying cash direct to the owner for a rented house instead of "owning" or leasing property via the social contract (law). Or moving onto a sailboat or camper or yurt or whatever. Then you can keep all the fruits of your labor, basically consequence free... nobody is gonna come asking about you, as far as the IRS is concerned- you dont exist anymore.

Thats how you live your free, independent, free-market lifestyle, man. just keep in mind youre gonna be stuffed if you have an urgent medical problem or your income source burns out. Works for me tho! Incredibly liberated existence.


Oh yea - as to "rights" .... rights are no more and no less than exactly whatever humans' collective conscience declares they are. Its one of the truly unique things about us as a social animal species - declaration. We can declare life liberty n the pursuit of happiness are rights, and enforce it via the social contract.. likewise we can also declare medical, housing, clean water and food are rights, and enforce em rights via the social contract. That is how that works.

And as society grows and becomes much more prosperous, as we benefit from technology, as we develop the ability to actually take care of everyone, seems the majority are believing we bear the obligation to. Thems just the breaks, my dawg.

[ripvanrando]

I never signed that contract.

Rights are not a collective popularity contest.

That is some messed up thinking there. So, you can twist my arm and make me buy stuff for lazy people?

Originally Posted by Dead Man

Everyday actions dont have to prove anything when we socialize public good. It isnt the individual citizens responsibility to personally see to the poor, its their responsibility to pay into the system that exists to benefit all and serve as a stopgap for people who fall... lest society just trample over them. Its part of the social contract. People in need are macro problems requiring macro solutions. So the cost of my bike means jack **** when ive spent my adult life paying a flat 16% federal income tax, plus state, year after year. It means im under no obligation as a humanist human to individually help homeless people out on the street- i pay professionals to do that.

It sounds like you want to benefit from the social contract while not paying the price of membership.. well, wouldnt that be nice? But you cant, so id just let that (irrational) notion go and accept reality here, man... you wanna be covered by the social contract/live in society, you pay dues.

There IS an alternative, and its a damn fair deal, and its how ive personally been living for a few years now... but you arent going to like it, when youre still convinced you ought to able to live in society without any obligation to society - get off the grid. Stop driving- or drive without a license, go 100% cash for both income and expense, close your bank accounts, terminate all relationships with social institutions and the government as a whole, sell all the rented-from-the-county land you "own," and get off the grid. And you can live next to the grid but not on it... this doesnt require moving to alaska, it just means paying cash direct to the owner for a rented house instead of "owning" or leasing property via the social contract (law). Or moving onto a sailboat or camper or yurt or whatever. Then you can keep all the fruits of your labor, basically consequence free... nobody is gonna come asking about you, as far as the IRS is concerned- you dont exist anymore.

Thats how you live your free, independent, free-market lifestyle, man. just keep in mind youre gonna be stuffed if you have an urgent medical problem or your income source burns out. Works for me tho! Incredibly liberated existence.


Oh yea - as to "rights" .... rights are no more and no less than exactly whatever humans' collective conscience declares they are. Its one of the truly unique things about us as a social animal species - declaration. We can declare life liberty n the pursuit of happiness are rights, and enforce it via the social contract.. likewise we can also declare medical, housing, clean water and food are rights, and enforce em rights via the social contract. That is how that works.

And as society grows and becomes much more prosperous, as we benefit from technology, as we develop the ability to actually take care of everyone, seems the majority are believing we bear the obligation to. Thems just the breaks, my dawg.

[rallizes]

"I would ideally want a world in which you could opt in our out of as many programs as possible."

Society isn't really a buffet tho

Let's hear your opt in opt out lists if you don't mind

[ripvanrando]

The discussion certain pertains.

Is healthcare a right and should it be free.

On the other side, should hospital be able to set prices all over the place and screw people like Phil

[Hellgate]

I take it we're not talking about Phil any longer?

[Clean39T]

Please.

[redir]

Ah the old 'lazy people' dog whistle. Good to know the true colors.

[Hilltopperny]

Originally Posted by redir

I had to fact check that to see if it was for real. Good lord we are screwed with an electorate dumb enough to put that in office.

You should have seen the opposition! It isn't like they put average working class people in office. You get two supposedly opposing sides who are funded by the same corporate interests while the normies fight about which side they are on. It is all a work!...

Sent from my LGL722DL using Tapatalk