OT: Electric Vehicles--anyone driving them or seriously looked at them?

[bikinchris]

Originally Posted by DrewK

This is a fascinating thread.

My major concern with PHEV’s and EV’s, and really anything with a giant battery, is our dependency on a Communist country (China). Last I read, China controls 75% of the world’s capacity of lithium production (or production of lithium products, I can’t remember).

What happens when China decides they don’t like us?

I suppose the same could happen now when the Middle East decides they have enough money and they don’t want to export any more fossil fuels...

Battery makers are ready to switch to Sodium instead of lithium. They've also figured out a way to make them last as much as ten times longer.

[robt57]

Originally Posted by bikinchris

Battery makers are ready to switch to Sodium instead of lithium. They've also figured out a way to make them last as much as ten times longer.

As exponentially as tech progresses these days, I've no doubt EV battery tech should improve demonstrably.

Having said that, we have two Prius cars [Pri-I?] in our orbit [family] from mid 00s that are still daily drivers. And on second HV modules both FWIW.

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Still not on board, but I am renting a Tesla Y next month for a trip to SF/wine country.

Hertz has teslas available cheaper than a comparable suv, so I figure what the heck. Plus, I can blend in with the locals better.

I am curious if autopilot is available on a rental? Never had to find a charging station or charge a car, but with the amount of driving on this trip I should only have to charge once?

So, to the current Tesla owners, how many of you use the autopilot regularly and trust it and in what situations do you not use it?

Maybe I'll come back a fan boy and want to sell my mustang, but I doubt it. amazingly, they look to be at about the same performance level.

I drove an OG Model S for many years (no autopilot, no seat heaters even!) and traded in for a Model Y in September. Every Tesla now comes standard with autopilot. When set that will basically be a cruise control that will keep the car between the lines and keep you from running into objects (ideally) in front of you. The Full Self Driving is what you pay extra for and the car will follow your navigation, stop at lights, auto lane change, etc. I did not pay for that in mine and probably never will. You can buy the upgrade for one month increments for $200.

I have a long commute to work on 2 lane twisty country roads and will use AP if there is traffic out and I have to drive slowly. The AP drives kind of like a nervous teenager. It will panic and slow down drastically on sharper curves and gets very nervous about cars pulling across the road in the distance. I give it 2 stars on Yelp.

The car on the whole, I like a lot, I'd say even more than I expected. As far as charging, if you're renting at SFO and you're fully charged, you shouldn't have to worry too much about charging. Check to see if your destination has charging and you're probably good to go. One thing I miss about my old Tesla is free Supercharging. I have to pay for that now and it costs about the same as paying for similar range gas. Make sure you download Tesla app before you pick up car.

[saab2000]

Autopilot is just another name for adaptive cruise control. There’s also “Autosteer” to keep you in your lane. It’s neither hands off, nor eyes off the road. It’s an assistance technology and even though I’ve joined the Tesla world, I prefer to do the steering myself. It is not Full Self Driving and that looks to be nowhere near ready, despite what Tesla says.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Spaghetti Legs

I drove an OG Model S for many years (no autopilot, no seat heaters even!) and traded in for a Model Y in September. Every Tesla now comes standard with autopilot. When set that will basically be a cruise control that will keep the car between the lines and keep you from running into objects (ideally) in front of you. The Full Self Driving is what you pay extra for and the car will follow your navigation, stop at lights, auto lane change, etc. I did not pay for that in mine and probably never will. You can buy the upgrade for one month increments for $200.

I have a long commute to work on 2 lane twisty country roads and will use AP if there is traffic out and I have to drive slowly. The AP drives kind of like a nervous teenager. It will panic and slow down drastically on sharper curves and gets very nervous about cars pulling across the road in the distance. I give it 2 stars on Yelp.

The car on the whole, I like a lot, I'd say even more than I expected. As far as charging, if you're renting at SFO and you're fully charged, you shouldn't have to worry too much about charging. Check to see if your destination has charging and you're probably good to go. One thing I miss about my old Tesla is free Supercharging. I have to pay for that now and it costs about the same as paying for similar range gas. Make sure you download Tesla app before you pick up car.

Good info and thanks. Been driving volvo's excellent level 2 pilot assist since 2016 and excited to see the differences. I am assuming the charging will be easy to find. I'll be in Santa Rosa for a few days and also assuming the hotel will have charging. Also curious if Hertz will charge you to bring it back low on charge and not full of gas?

Been thinking of upgrading my wife's xc90 and now that they are taking orders for the new ex90 that could be her next vehicle.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Autopilot is just another name for adaptive cruise control. There’s also “Autosteer” to keep you in your lane.

It's too bad this stuff got conflated with electric cars. My toyota has a good enough assistive cruise control for me, although the nags for not holding the wheel (because of tesla drivers?) can get old.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

It's too bad this stuff got conflated with electric cars. My toyota has a good enough assistive cruise control for me, although the nags for not holding the wheel (because of tesla drivers?) can get old.

My VW Tiguan (which I just sold this morning) has adaptive cruise and lane assist. It also nagged the driver if the hands were off the wheel. So it’s not “Tesla drivers” per se that are problematic, though some undoubtedly are overconfident in the technology. I like driving so I’m not turning that over to the computer. The Autopilot and Autosteer are pretty decent on a low density cruise though. But they’re not intended to be autonomous driving.

I’ve seen reports that GM’s Supercruise is pretty good and is hands-off. Buts not eyes-off-the-road either and there is an electronic babysitter to make sure you keep paying attention.

[paredown]

Since I started this thread, one friend has switched to a Chevy Bolt, with the full monty of solar panels --and couldn't be happier. I also met a nice young couple at a garage sale -- and her commuter vehicle was a Hyundai Ioniq--and they claimed that the difference in their electric bills was almost lost in the noise, even with our high priced electricity. So there's that... And a third friend just sold her last gasser and her Nissan Leaf, betting that the next round of electrics will give her the range she claims she needs to have only one vehicle in the garage.

My own plans are moving forward at a glacial pace--we did get Dandelion to estimate for geothermal, and we kind of lost interest when it was going to be over $30k. For now, I'm working on some simple sealing and insulation upgrade projects to keep more heat inside--so if (when) we change out our heating system, we'll be able to right size.

Solar panels (and/or electric car) is still quite a ways off for us.

[72gmc]

Originally Posted by paredown

Solar panels (and/or electric car) is still quite a ways off for us.

Us too. It'll get serious thinking once we take serious steps on our next home/next life.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by redir

I still don't see EV's as a better way forward for the environment. Where's all the power going to come from? Batteries are not exactly environmentally friendly either. I mean EV's certainly help but it would be better if people just stopped driving all together. There is a lot of promise in the future of nuclear energy especially in with Traveling-Wave Reactors.

Gonna need some serious infrastructure for EVs.
Power generation and a way to transport it.

I think we're seeing some grasping at straws by people who believe in magical central planning over market forces. They remind me of people starting a small business but who have no customers and no plan to get any. Or even a business plan.

That said, I'd have an electric car if infrastructure was in place and 100% functional. (as long as I also had an IC car for trips and back up)

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by paredown

Since I started this thread, one friend has switched to a Chevy Bolt, with the full monty of solar panels --and couldn't be happier. I also met a nice young couple at a garage sale -- and her commuter vehicle was a Hyundai Ioniq--and they claimed that the difference in their electric bills was almost lost in the noise, even with our high priced electricity. So there's that... And a third friend just sold her last gasser and her Nissan Leaf, betting that the next round of electrics will give her the range she claims she needs to have only one vehicle in the garage.

My own plans are moving forward at a glacial pace--we did get Dandelion to estimate for geothermal, and we kind of lost interest when it was going to be over $30k. For now, I'm working on some simple sealing and insulation upgrade projects to keep more heat inside--so if (when) we change out our heating system, we'll be able to right size.

Solar panels (and/or electric car) is still quite a ways off for us.

They're still not great for road tripping unless they're with the brand that has become a bit toxic lately due to their dear leader. That brand has a reliable and widespread en-route charging network. The others are less reliable and are more random.

All that said, I'm not sure I would replace my 4-year old Tiguan again. It has plenty of life in it and was paid for, etc. etc........ But what's done is done and I'm moving forward as a Model Y owner.

Charger is at home and 99% of my driving will be local, as in within a 100 mile radius, meaning a charge will get me out and back with little stress.

But for folks who are remote or in rural places and can't charge at home or regularly tow or drive long distances, EVs are still full of compromises. But for my situation it's in a real sweet spot.

I wouldn't replace a good working vehicle that doesn't need replacing. I did and have some regrets about that. But if someone is in actual need of a new vehicle it's worth researching EV options and charging options. It's changing and evolving rapidly at this point.

My brand new Model Y will probably be old tech in five years......

[HenryA]

Also, take into account the current state of our electrical grid. Imagine the power being out for a week and an EV in the driveway with a discharged battery.

Lots of work to be done if its gonna get better. Wishing won't make it so.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by saab2000

{snip]
My brand new Model Y will probably be old tech in five years......

Current EV = Windows 3.1

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by sg8357

Current EV = Windows 3.1

Not wrong ^^^^^^^

[Spaghetti Legs]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Also, take into account the current state of our electrical grid. Imagine the power being out for a week and an EV in the driveway with a discharged battery.

Lots of work to be done if its gonna get better. Wishing won't make it so.

Funny you bring that up. Around about 2012, when I was still driving a gas car (Passat wagon) I was coming home from work and the gas needle was on empty. This was a night shift so I decided I'd gas up on the way to work that night. Next evening right before I went to work, huge storm blew through, trees down everywhere and electricity out for what would be about a week. I babied the car to work and back but afraid to drive anywhere else as the car was on fumes. Power was out to a huge area and no gas stations were operating anywhere nearby. Car sat in the driveway for a week+. If I had an EV it would have been charged up, like it is every day when I'm ready to go and wouldn't have been an issue.

At any rate, electricity generation capacity is a real concern but I think it's likely capacity will grow on pace with EV adoption, just like it does with increased energy demands in every other sector.