OT: Ray, how's your Bitcoin investment going?

[redir]

Originally Posted by Louis

Med School for the 99%:

hahahaha

[redir]

Originally Posted by fuzzalow

Very true. The words "defined benefit" does not enter into the lexicon of an entire cross section of virtually anyone that started a career about the time John Travolta filmed "Saturday Night Fever". I dunno about any of the union worker base if this is also true or not.

Middle class is under attack in the desperate attempt in maintaining living standard expectations amid an overall declining standard of living for the USA. Scary stuff.

Growing segment of income is misleading as it mainly applies to the health care professions. This is one contributor to a very dangerous death spiral in light of the overall US economy - it a fundamental perversion to have health care driven and incentivized by the profit motive. It is as rapacious as unfettered capitalism.

When you drive down the road you pass the local police department, the fire department, the rescue squad, the National Guard, and then the hospital.

One of those sticks out like a soar thumb.

[cfox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

9 mos, 3 days......then 2 more years.

"Anecdotal evidence", perfect for the news, faux or otherwise.

BTW, I am on Tricare, 100% government policy, ala what members of congress has, and it is tremendous. Another isolated instance that 'proves' nothing.

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

[54ny77]

I know 3 others in your same boat, of varying ages.

The older person is going to have a tough time of it. Blue Cross said adios to his private policy (non-employer).

Mountain is right.

Originally Posted by cfox

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cfox

No one is surprised that congress has given themselves a tremendous health care plan.

My insurance was cancelled because of Obama Care and I was forced to buy a new policy through an Obama Care exchange. Much weaker coverage for a 50% increase in my premium/out of pocket cost. What a deal!! The sign-up process was a complete disaster. I started the process as early as possible, yet I wasn't able to confirm I actually had coverage until 2 weeks after my prior plan expired. Super comforting with a wife and two young kids. That 'anecdote' still feels pretty real to me. A mountain of isolated incidents = a mountain.

Congress didn't give themselves anything, it's a government employee health insurance plan. It took 20 years in the USN to get mine. I don't think anybody in congress earned this good deal.

ACA has problems, decent first step, poorly implemented, IMHO, that is in need of improvement. Social security, when new, did too. What makes no sense is to can it......that would be a mess.

But we'll see in 2016, vote early and vote often.....now back to bit coins!

[the bottle ride]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Pete, CPI includes energy, food etc:

.......

There is a turkish saying: If you hold the honey pot, you get to lick your fingers.

Great post- I come for the bike pictures and discussion - but sometimes the OT discussion on politics and the economy is first rate. Always good to read all sorts of views.

[cfox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Congress didn't give themselves anything, it's a government employee health insurance plan. It took 20 years in the USN to get mine. I don't think anybody in congress earned this good deal.

ACA has problems, decent first step, poorly implemented, IMHO, that is in need of improvement. Social security, when new, did too. What makes no sense is to can it......that would be a mess.

But we'll see in 2016, vote early and vote often.....now back to bit coins!

oh, they gave it to themselves, alright. That shameless rabble are part time employees; they don't deserve tricare. Veterans like you and my father-in-law certainly do.

Agree, back to coins! This health care talk is depressing.

[54ny77]

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

Actually, prescriptions are only 10.1% of the total pie. The yoy% increase is only 1.2%. Believe it or not, prescription drugs are almost a bargain in U.S. healthcare. YOY% increase for hospitals and physicians was 4.9%. This is the largest driver of healthcare costs. It's also 50.8% of the total pie.

Hospital concentration is a large driver of cost increases. In markets where mergers took place to increase concentration and limit competition, price increased at 20%. Maximizing the revenue stream so to speak.

[1centaur]

fuzzalow: I don't think it can be viewed as speculation that when there is less of something than one desires it will be rationed by one means or another. If it is a for profit system, the rationing might be accomplished by price. If a non-profit system, the rationing will probably be done by availability. No government will ever offer unlimited health care, so how will it limit that care? We shall hope that one person will not make that decision. Groups of people will make those decisions over time, presumably on the basis of cost/benefit of some sort. Still not reaching the range of speculation but merely logic, I think.

If health care is limited, some people will presumably die sooner because of such limits. Hard to argue with that. Others will suffer in less serious ways. So if a group of people makes a decision to limit health care, and some people die, could one for the sake of a sound bite fairly call that a death panel, there having been a panel and some death? Yes. Then again, people die today because of insurance company policies and insurance affordability, so it's really just the means of denial we are discussing, not the fact of it.

But when I talked of official priorities I was not saying death panels per se because that issue is related to a lot more than death and because some minds stop working when that phrase is uttered. Inevitably, not speculatively, logic dictates that people will be harmed by the structure of the health care business, regardless of the payer.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by 1centaur

fuzzalow: I don't think it can be viewed as speculation that when there is less of something than one desires it will be rationed by one means or another. If it is a for profit system, the rationing might be accomplished by price. If a non-profit system, the rationing will probably be done by availability. No government will ever offer unlimited health care, so how will it limit that care? We shall hope that one person will not make that decision. Groups of people will make those decisions over time, presumably on the basis of cost/benefit of some sort. Still not reaching the range of speculation but merely logic, I think.

If health care is limited, some people will presumably die sooner because of such limits. Hard to argue with that. Others will suffer in less serious ways. So if a group of people makes a decision to limit health care, and some people die, could one for the sake of a sound bite fairly call that a death panel, there having been a panel and some death? Yes. Then again, people die today because of insurance company policies and insurance affordability, so it's really just the means of denial we are discussing, not the fact of it.

But when I talked of official priorities I was not saying death panels per se because that issue is related to a lot more than death and because some minds stop working when that phrase is uttered. Inevitably, not speculatively, logic dictates that people will be harmed by the structure of the health care business, regardless of the payer.

There are also issues of fairness when individuals made lifestyle choices with long term medical consequences vs those who maintained healthy lifestyles.
It's like a reverse stupid tax.

[tylerbick]

Just another symptom that capitalism is in the beginning stages of death-throws.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mcrispl]

Originally Posted by 54ny77

why does health care cost so damned much?

here's an example: pal of mine worked on a drug for 20+ years, company has invested mind blowing amounts in it (10 figures).

that means zero revenue for 20+ years. huge operating costs. expensive, well-educated and smart employees dedicated to getting that thing to market.

and it still ain't done. literally some folks on the project have retired in the interim.

In addition the billions of dollars that are spent on quality control throughout development and during production in order to maintain good standing with the FDA (I suppose you could get cynical and suggest that the FDA is being bribed, etc. but still a massive expense) All companies obviously do a degree of quality control, but for the most part it doesn't come close to what medical device and pharmaceutical companies spend.

[Ahneida Ride]

My health care went up 50% and coverage went down.
My good plan was declared illegal.
Another promise broken.

That means less frns to spend on bike stuff.
Less disposable income.
I can't practice fictional reserve like a bank and create frns outa
thin air and charge interest on nothing.

[Louis]

ACA was designed such that for those who did not support Obama costs would go up and coverage would go down. Those who did vote for him get it for $50 a month and everything is covered, including $10,000 bikes every other year, since cycling improves your health.