Weight Loss Meds (Wegovy, etc)

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

You are right, and that's totally fair. Seeking first hand opinions from other cyclists is a good idea.

Based on some of your other posts, it sounds like you are going to be making a move somewhat soon. Perhaps that also involves a change in jobs? Maybe when you settle into your new position(s) - your weight loss situation will improve too? Just a thought?

I hope my posts here have not come across as harsh or judgemental, not intended. I wish you luck on your journey!

all good, I never thought it came from a place of anything other than good intentions!

yes, I will be moving to Oregon in 18ish months when the kid graduates HS.. no idea on the job, hopefully I find one..

really, at this point, I'm 50/50 on taking the meds (if offered) based on the side effects (low energy, nausea, possible muscle loss, etc).. of course, I'm not sure which flavor of the meds I'd offered at this point, but my assumption would be semaglutide (Wegovy).. the idea that I could lose the 40# in under a year certainly sounds fantastic as that would act as reset back to my 20s (as far as weight) with the hope I could stop the meds and maintain at that point.. I understand that would mean a lifestyle change obviously..

We'll see when I have my follow-up in November..

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by benb

It's definitely not the same as alcohol or drugs

from an addiction point of view, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree as I think it is very much the same.. and some folks certainly seem to have a more addictive personality than others..

BTW- talking to someone who has been taking the meds, they don't just suppress your appetite, they make it so food you ate before holds no interest to you now.. almost creates an aversion to food it sounds like.. at least that's how it was described by one person's experience that's been on it for a while now.. it's been very effective for them, but they also assume they'll be on it for the rest if their life..

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

As a RD, my main concern with GLP-1 angonists is the long-term consequences.

If they can't be tolerated long-term, and going off them causes the urges to overeat to return, and in the procees one has lost significant muscle mass due to long-term caloric deficit, will people end up worse off (metabolically) than before? It seems likely.

This is all so ridiculous. Again we have our pharma industry pushing a drug that is untested long term, just as we were all required to take essentially unproven vaccines just a few years ago. But the profits are almost obscene. Isn't it obvious? An alien would land in America and just be astounded if it watched millions drive up to windows in strip mall land, being fed fattening industrial gruel, and then turn on a TV and see commercials for expensive drugs that, from what I can see, are highly addictive and can severely harm the user with muscle loss. Really? Muscle loss? This is good, and worth looking good in a swimsuit? But this is the solution, supposedly. "Nothing else works. It's not my fault!"
We can be such a weak and lazy society, looking for the quick fix. This took such a long time to get to this point. If you're of a certain age, go back to photos of your youth and early adulthood. There are hardly any fat people. Now, go to a mall, a game, pretty much anywhere besides an event that everyone is gathering to exercise in, and it's almost absurd. It should be regarded as a national crisis, with our medical community constantly trying to educate citizens about healthy ways to fix this problem, but all we get are new, harmful drugs.

[EB]

Oh boy, thread is heading into anti vax territory, this will be fun.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

This is all so ridiculous. Again we have our pharma industry pushing a drug that is untested long term, just as we were all required to take essentially unproven vaccines just a few years ago. But the profits are almost obscene. Isn't it obvious? An alien would land in America and just be astounded if it watched millions drive up to windows in strip mall land, being fed fattening industrial gruel, and then turn on a TV and see commercials for expensive drugs that, from what I can see, are highly addictive and can severely harm the user with muscle loss. Really? Muscle loss? This is good, and worth looking good in a swimsuit? But this is the solution, supposedly. "Nothing else works. It's not my fault!"
We can be such a weak and lazy society, looking for the quick fix. This took such a long time to get to this point If you're of a certain age, go back to photos of your youth and early adulthood. There are hardly any fat people. Now, go to a mall, a game, pretty much anywhere besides an event that everyone is gathering to exercise in, and it's almost absurd. It should be regarded as a national crisis, with our medical community constantly trying to educate citizens about healthy ways to fix this problem, but all we get are new, harmful drugs.

at the risk of devolving this discussion..

1. I had a reply regarding meds/vaccines here, but I will remove it.. good point EB..

2. who has indicated these meds are addictive? Talking to actual people who have taken the meds, I can't imagine the side effects would make them anything close to addictive (assuming you understand addiction usually comes from a pleasure center)

3. this argument about "look back in history, there's no overweight people".. sure, to a small extent.. back in the early 19th century, we were still a largely agiculteral society and, if not, were working long hours in crap conditions in a factory.. not a lot of time to enjoy food or other pleasurables for sure, but also not exactly a healthy way to live (the factory part).. BUT there have been lots of people groups in history that were not skinny.. to be sure they were usually folks in a higher station of life, but that doesn't mean the skinny people (in a lower station" were healthy.. people love to have a revisionist look on history if it supports their argument (I do too I'm sure).. I'm not saying we, as a society, are healthier now with all the processed foods, etc, but the implied argument that we should just "look back 50 yrs and be like them" is silly at best.. our ancestors would LOVE to have the working conditions, etc that we have now.. we, as a society, just need to figure out how to be healthy in THIS part of our timeline.. NOT harken back to "yonder days"..

"It should be regarded as a national crisis, with our medical community constantly trying to educate citizens about healthy ways to fix this problem, but all we get are new, harmful drugs."

-you obviously have never been to a nutritionist or provider to talk about weight loss.. they don't immediately jump to meds.. I'm really happy for you if you have never been above 20% body fat, but that's not everyone's experience..

[EB]

Originally Posted by fourflys

at the risk of devolving this discussion..

1. I had a reply regarding meds/vaccines here, but I will remove it.. good point EB..

2. who has indicated these meds are addictive? Talking to actual people who have taken the meds, I can't imagine the side effects would make them anything close to addictive (assuming you understand addiction usually comes from a pleasure center)

3. this argument about "look back in history, there's no overweight people".. sure, to a small extent.. back in the early 19th century, we were still a largely agiculteral society and, if not, were working long hours in crap conditions in a factory.. not a lot of time to enjoy food or other pleasurables for sure, but also not exactly a healthy way to live (the factory part).. BUT there have been lots of people groups in history that were not skinny.. to be sure they were usually folks in a higher station of life, but that doesn't mean the skinny people (in a lower station" were healthy.. people love to have a revisionist look on history if it supports their argument (I do too I'm sure).. I'm not saying we, as a society, are healthier now with all the processed foods, etc, but the implied argument that we should just "look back 50 yrs and be like them" is silly at best.. our ancestors would LOVE to have the working conditions, etc that we have now.. we, as a society, just need to figure out how to be healthy in THIS part of our timeline.. NOT harken back to "yonder days"..

"It should be regarded as a national crisis, with our medical community constantly trying to educate citizens about healthy ways to fix this problem, but all we get are new, harmful drugs."

-you obviously have never been to a nutritionist or provider to talk about weight loss.. they don't immediately jump to meds.. I'm really happy for you if you have never been above 20% body fat, but that's not everyone's experience..

Re #3, not to mention, antibiotics and vaccines exist today. The primary reason life expectancy is so much higher today than in the 19th century is that. One of my favorite "fun facts" is that the first designer of the Brooklyn Bridge died from tetanus after crushing his toes.

[unterhausen]

I assume the "side effect" of muscle wasting with these drugs is just that you aren't eating enough. Same thing happens with dieting, but these drugs are dieting on overdrive.

I assume people are working on less severe versions, that would lead to wealth beyond imagining.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by fourflys

at the risk of devolving this discussion..

1. I had a reply regarding meds/vaccines here, but I will remove it.. good point EB..

2. who has indicated these meds are addictive? Talking to actual people who have taken the meds, I can't imagine the side effects would make them anything close to addictive (assuming you understand addiction usually comes from a pleasure center)

3. this argument about "look back in history, there's no overweight people".. sure, to a small extent.. back in the early 19th century, we were still a largely agiculteral society and, if not, were working long hours in crap conditions in a factory.. not a lot of time to enjoy food or other pleasurables for sure, but also not exactly a healthy way to live (the factory part).. BUT there have been lots of people groups in history that were not skinny.. to be sure they were usually folks in a higher station of life, but that doesn't mean the skinny people (in a lower station" were healthy.. people love to have a revisionist look on history if it supports their argument (I do too I'm sure).. I'm not saying we, as a society, are healthier now with all the processed foods, etc, but the implied argument that we should just "look back 50 yrs and be like them" is silly at best.. our ancestors would LOVE to have the working conditions, etc that we have now.. we, as a society, just need to figure out how to be healthy in THIS part of our timeline.. NOT harken back to "yonder days"..

"It should be regarded as a national crisis, with our medical community constantly trying to educate citizens about healthy ways to fix this problem, but all we get are new, harmful drugs."

-you obviously have never been to a nutritionist or provider to talk about weight loss.. they don't immediately jump to meds.. I'm really happy for you if you have never been above 20% body fat, but that's not everyone's experience..

(2) I have heard more than once that a severe side effects from these drugs is, when one stops using them, they have an incredible urge to overeat. But, that's no excuse, really. If a person has given up on even trying to do things in their life to reduce weight, like simply eating less and better, and regular exercise, and runs to their doctor for a drug to fix this problem, and it actually "works", then I would think that you would have a new, addictive, feel good drug, right? Because most people feel pretty good after reducing the waist size to high school levels, and don't want to go back to 40 pounds overweight. Even if it means less of valuable muscle (which is also part of the weight loss, btw). A lot of people are going to be addicted to suddenly being attractive to the opposite sex, too.

(3) The history I was talking about about was the 60s and 70s, not our agrarian pre industrial society. Look at the pictures of Woodstock, which had a few hundred thousand drug addled youth all gathered together to see drug addled musicians play. There's no fatties. Imagine that gathering today. And what happened since then? Industrial food served in enormous portions at millions of chain restaurants, and now we have a society, thanks to the lockdowns, that can't even get up off the couch to go out to these places, they learned to DoorDash it. Pizza! Watch the NFL (which I also blame for obesity. America spends beautiful fall Sundays eating and watching) and check out the countless commercials for thick, disgustingly oozy pizza just and app click away.

I've been to a doctor many a time, not a nutritionist, because I know how to lose weight, thank you. But, almost every doctor except one wrote a script for me for my persistent high blood pressure, instead of telling me to take off ten or fifteen, and ask me about my diet. They all could seem to care less that I bike 2500 miles a year and visit the gym almost every second day. It's not on their radar at all, it seems. They should all be shouting from the rooftops about our obesity and lack of exercise problem, but, where's the profit in that? Plenty of profit in fast food and drugs, though, right?

Porsches are expensive.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

There's no fatties.

the fact that you would even use this term after all the discussion back and forth on fat shaming, etc tells me everything I need to know about your input to this discussion.. you have no relevance here.. please exit the discussion..

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I assume the "side effect" of muscle wasting with these drugs is just that you aren't eating enough. Same thing happens with dieting, but these drugs are dieting on overdrive.

as I understand it, yes.. when you start the meds, many people just want to come home and go to sleep based on the sudden lack of carbs (energy).. that coupled with the decrease in protein for most as well (from decrease in food) equates to loss of muscle.. the main person I've talked to who has been on the meds for a minute are now in the phase when they go to the gym every day and make a conscious effort in taking in enough protein to build back up/keep muscle.. they aren't quite on the maintenance dose portion yet, but getting close it sounds like.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by fourflys

the fact that you would even use this term after all the discussion back and forth on fat shaming, etc tells me everything I need to know about your input to this discussion.. you have no relevance here.. please exit the discussion..

Now that you mention it, that's another part of this problem. One is "fat shaming" if one brings up the subject.

Frank Zappa said way back that, someday, it will be ok to be fat, and here we are. And they invented a new drug for it

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

Now that you mention it, that's another part of this problem. One is "fat shaming" if one brings up the subject.

yes, if you can't discuss the subject without resorting to using terms like "fatties", which is obviously a derogatory term, means you don't deserve to be in the room.. again, please exit the discussion..

[vertr]

>Again we have our pharma industry pushing a drug that is untested long term

12 years sounds pretty long term to me. That's plenty of data to study many multiples of people who are on it for a few years.

[PurpleBikeChick]

Originally Posted by benb

..... an awful lot of it seems to be a) urge to eat that is uncontrollable....

The drug just takes care of that urge to eat. All the rest of us who constantly say "just eat less" just don't have that uncontrollable urge. What is interesting is if something in the environment has made that urge more prevalent.

This ^^^^^

The concept of "food noise" is fascinating

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...brain-but-how/
(should be free)

Just imagine how hard it is if you cannot turn this off. From the article
"My whole life was thinking about food,” .. a cross-country runner in high school, ... But she ate almost con*stantly and had been carrying extra weight since childhood. Even when Hall felt physically full, her brain was occupied by thoughts of food"

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by fourflys

yes, if you can't discuss the subject without resorting to using terms like "fatties", which is obviously a derogatory term, means you don't deserve to be in the room.. again, please exit the discussion..

Well, so sorry to offend. I come from a different time, must always be updated.

So, how do you explain the lack of weight challenged people at Woodstock, or, trust me, most anywhere then, because I was around them, and so many weight challenged people today? Lack of weight loss drugs?