OT: 2023 - 2024 Football / Calcio / Futbol / Fußball Thread

[martl]

Originally Posted by echappist

All of them except for BVB (only second time post-Klopp) and Arsenal. Though Arsenal getting booted out (say by Bayern) would be par for the course, even at this slightly later stage of proceedings.

Also, Man. Sheikhy is UAE. Easy to remember b/c sheikhs are important figures in UAE but not KSA.

Ah you're right of course. Can we agree on Manchester Dabhi?

Arsenal: not so much a surprise given current form, arent they leading the table ahead of Pool and City currently?

BVB: yep. They profited from getting a comparatively easy draw with Eindhoven, whereas Barca - Napoli and Atleti -Inter eliminated 2 teams that were rated possibly a bit higher

[wc1934]

wow - anyone see the Leverkusen game?

[martl]

CL Draw:

1 Bayern - Arsenal
2 Atletico - BVB
3 City - Real
4 PSG - Barcelona

HF:

1:3
2:4

HF is interesting as it makes sure that one of the bottom 4 teams (according to the bookies) will make it to the final:


Quotes:

City 2,6 - 2,75
Arsenal 5 - 5,5
Real 5,5 - 6
Bayern 7 - 7,25
PSG 13 - 14
Barca 15-17
Atletico 19 - 21
BVB 26 - 27

[echappist]

Originally Posted by martl

Ah you're right of course. Can we agree on Manchester Dabhi?

Arsenal: not so much a surprise given current form, arent they leading the table ahead of Pool and City currently?

BVB: yep. They profited from getting a comparatively easy draw with Eindhoven, whereas Barca - Napoli and Atleti -Inter eliminated 2 teams that were rated possibly a bit higher

Good one on the Dabhi, only matter is that it sounds too much like "derby", and we all know that Manchester doesn't have a truly competitive derby for the time being

Arsenal are first indeed, although it faces some stern tests ahead, including from your team. I don't think Woolwich will get blasted 5-1 home and away (Arteta is too pragmatic to let that happen), but even this Bayern will be a stern test, and Bayern has more attacking options than Porto does.

BvB might just squeak by Atleti. The former is a lot more defensive-minded, but without the actual defensive solidity. Kobel has been bailing out the team time and again. Atleti regularly starts Witsel in its CB trio, which is somewhat interesting as Witsel shone as a DM for BvB before an ACL injury slowed him down. No idea if he's regained some speed.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

wow - anyone see the Leverkusen game?

I watched LFC batter Prague instead. Rewatching the end of the Leverkusen match now (while I do my leg PT routine). Leverkusen has been living quite dangerously the past few weeks...

[martl]

Originally Posted by echappist

No idea if he's regained some speed.

He can have a contest with Mats "the glacier" Hummels

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by echappist

I watched LFC batter Prague instead. Rewatching the end of the Leverkusen match now (while I do my leg PT routine). Leverkusen has been living quite dangerously the past few weeks...

Still unbeaten.
Two goals in extra time - kills me that extra time seems so arbitrary. They put up 6 minutes and it went to what - 9?

[echappist]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Still unbeaten.
Two goals in extra time - kills me that extra time seems so arbitrary. They put up 6 minutes and it went to what - 9?

Restarts from the two goals alone took slightly more than 65 and slightly more than 75 seconds, respectively. So 2:30 from those restarts alone. The Qarabag GK was probably adjudged to have held onto the ball a tad long on the goal kicks (and was shown a yellow for it early in injury time). So altogether, ~9 minutes was probably reasonable. Last real action occurred slightly past +9:00, which resulted in a Leverkusen goal kick that got delayed for a check of possible handball. Goal kick finally taken after 30 seconds of review, and the final whistle blew then.

[martl]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Still unbeaten.
Two goals in extra time - kills me that extra time seems so arbitrary. They put up 6 minutes and it went to what - 9?

i know this is hard to get used to if one is accustomed to team sports with a definite countdown clock, but the Ref in football has leeway in deciding when to blow the whistle. As the time is total, not time played, it is up to the ref to decide which time stoppages are considered normal happenings during a match and which are considered extraordinary and warrant time added.

The "additional/injury time" is also decided by the ref on the pitch, not by the person holding up the info board *) It gets announced as a convenience for spectators, but its not a law.

If some minutes are added, and there are incidents like goals scored, players substituted, injuries treated, or deliberate slow play by one of the teams *within* that added time, the ref has full authority to factor that in. There are no hard rules also, which kind of event causes how many seconds added time, only rough guidelines, like 30sec + per substitution, but they are not binding;
The Ref would also have full authority to *not* do that - the only thing he/she can *not* do is signal 4min overtime and then end the game earlier.

*)I remember when that rule with the additional time announced on the info board was introduced, i think at some WC. Not all football pundits were in on that new rules, although i am sure there were plenty of trainings by FIFA on that subject but those are for rookies, not for experienced football commentators, i mean duh, right? So one of the latter, legendary Gert Rubenbauer from Germany, was completely surprised at the first match an official held up one of those boards showing a "1" (for 1 min added).
He was like "OMG what THE HELL is he DOING??? He's substituting the GOALKEEPER?????"

[goonster]

Originally Posted by martl

the Ref in football has leeway in deciding when to blow the whistle. As the time is total, not time played, it is up to the ref to decide which time stoppages are considered normal happenings during a match and which are considered extraordinary and warrant time added.

I think we all know this, and when you spend a lifetime watching games regularly, you get a sense for what is a reasonable amount of "time to add on to the time added on."

No matter how rational it is, sometimes teams seem to benefit from this more than feels right. c.f. "Fergie time."

In that Leverkusen game it really did seem like a lot, but then it also allowed for a very good Qarabag chance to equalize before the very very end.

[wc1934]

Originally Posted by goonster

I think we all know this, and when you spend a lifetime watching games regularly, you get a sense for what is a reasonable amount of "time to add on to the time added on."

No matter how rational it is, sometimes teams seem to benefit from this more than feels right. c.f. "Fergie time."

In that Leverkusen game it really did seem like a lot, but then it also allowed for a very good Qarabag chance to equalize before the very very end.

Totally agree with everything you said. That is how it appeared to me. Which goes back to my original question - do the refs allow for one last equalizing push from the loosing team. Seems so to me.

[wc1934]

Today - Real Madrid vs Manchester City (Ancelotti vs Guardiola) - doesn't get any better than this!

[Waldo62]

Originally Posted by wc1934

Today - Real Madrid vs Manchester City (Ancelotti vs Guardiola) - doesn't get any better than this!

This should be the final, but since it isn't we get to see them play twice!

[echappist]

The Arsenal Bayern match isn't half bad either. Looks like Bayern's starting CBs will be seriously tested on pace (Dier and De Ligt aren't the fleetest). I get that Upmecano might get his pocket picked (see last year vs Man City), but I'm not sure why Kim isn't starting.

[Beldar77]

But Arteta should have started Jesus. Right now he is better in tight spaces and causes more havoc than Martinelli with the same if not better defensive effort.