Rene Herse tires.

[gravelreformist]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

That's not why the world was locked into 23mm tires. They had the same style R&D we have now they just had less and lower availability.

There were no fast wide tires because nobody made them, nobody made them because the concept was antithetical to how tires were generally made. A wide tire needs to be relatively thinner than a narrower tire to be close to as fast. This design and production concept was functionally dead when Jan Heine arrived on the scene.

Let's not undersell what it took to get here. Nobody made tires in larger sizes in the construction that makes them fast. To get from the marginally fast Grand Bois tires as a base to the actually fast René Herse tires required years of testing and development. The Grand Bois tires are very supple but have very thick rubber, the Compass tires were a development to maintain that suppleness (which was fast) while thinning the tread considerably (this was faster).

Think of it this way, if you put the biggest, fastest tire you could find on your bike in 2005 you'd be significantly slower than on 23s, and this concept continues both forwards of backwards from that point until probably the early 1980s through to 2015ish.

The tires didn't exist.

While I generally agree with that assessment, I don't think it's quite so clear-cut, and perhaps giving Jan too much credit.

I was racing pro MTB and cross in the late 90's, and we had nearly slick lightweight MTB tires from both Ritchey and Continental. Who knows what they actually measured in RR but they were very much of the style that is popular today, and very light and fast in comparison to everything else at the time.

For wide fast road-sized tires, there was always a good selection of light and supple cross tubulars made in 28-33mm in all types from simple file pattern to more tread. But they didn't fit road bikes so other than some of us using our cross bikes as early 'gravel' bikes, never garnered much attention.

[spoonrobot]

Race results are only as relevant as the manufacturer wishes to make them. René Herse has pivoted to race results being very important and relevant:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/riders/

Originally Posted by benb

Yah staying tethered to reality here is something to strive for.

The tire brand or type of tube or lack of tube is a pretty marginal thing compared to everything else going on.

This is the most maximal thing to most racers. The number 1 thing that effects success or failure in a bicycle race are the tires. Tire issues are the most common mechanicals on race day, and are for most riders the only type of mechanical than is likely to occur more than once in an event.

[John H.]

Brennan Wertz- Something like 14 plugs and a wheel change for his RH tires at Unbound!

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Who was the highest placed René Herse sponsored rider at Unbound?

Ted King at 35th place?

Innokenty Zavyalov in 40th

Brennan Wertz in 60th

I guess for the Women's Lauren de Crescenzo came in 9th (-1h25m)



The top 10 was a real who's who of fast gravel tires - in order below

Vittoria
Maxxis
Specialized
Vittoria
Pirelli
Schwalbe
Pirelli
Maxxis
Wolfpack (?)
Continental
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René Herse

[merckx]

I assume Brennan Wertz didn't have any spare tubes on board? Wouldn't it make sense to simply install a tube following a couple of plug failures so that he could get on with his ride?

[m_sasso]

Originally Posted by merckx

I assume Brennan Wertz didn't have any spare tubes on board? Wouldn't it make sense to simply install a tube following a couple of plug failures so that he could get on with his ride?

You are assuming the 14 plugs failed. They could of all been successful however just had a lot of seperate punctures.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by John H.

Brennan Wertz- Something like 14 plugs and a wheel change for his RH tires at Unbound!

we already examined this experience earlier in the thread. Nobody has suggested a reason why we should blame this on RH or Panaracer. Sounds like he got a big gash in a tire. Or multiple. Seems to me that if you get sponsored by a brand, a little more explanation is in order.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by EB

Good XC mountain bike tires are pretty fast. Is Unbound turning into "Leadville with more oxygen?"

They are, and they test really well in the lab.

I kind of figured that at some point, weight and aero overcome the rolling resistance - but that doesnt seem to be the case here even at 20+ mph averages.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by spoonrobot

Who was the highest placed René Herse sponsored rider at Unbound?

Ted King at 35th place?

Innokenty Zavyalov in 40th

Brennan Wertz in 60th

I guess for the Women's Lauren de Crescenzo came in 9th (-1h25m)



The top 10 was a real who's who of fast gravel tires - in order below

Vittoria
Maxxis
Specialized
Vittoria
Pirelli
Schwalbe
Pirelli
Maxxis
Wolfpack (?)
Continental
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
René Herse

Vittoria tires never seem to "test" well via group test or via rolling resistance but people who win things, like unbound or the Gravel Worlds, ride them. Is there something being missed or just lucky to be on the fastest person?

[Gwerziou]

I find it's a total crapshoot if a tubeless tire will or won't fit on my bike. I have a really great-looking Continental 'Terra Speed' cross tire hanging in my garage that looked like an ideal replacement for the Schwalbe X-one, I think it is, where Schwalbe changed the tread pattern which i really liked, but that Conti tire will absolutely NOT go on that wheel.

[Spoker]

Jan reported zero flats over the 350 miles xl race fwiw.
Extralight casing tubed.

[wyatt_]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Vittoria tires never seem to "test" well via group test or via rolling resistance but people who win things, like unbound or the Gravel Worlds, ride them. Is there something being missed or just lucky to be on the fastest person?

This is sometimes hard for me to admit (when I want to justify to myself spending $200 on tires) but tires just can't make you fast.

When I see the spread of brands among these winners, it looks pretty clear to me that those marginal gains that tests fixate on don't matter that much in the real world.

A lot of good tires out there these days, not hard to find a good one. Much harder to put in the miles on them.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by wyatt_

it looks pretty clear to me that those marginal gains that tests fixate on don't matter that much in the real world

Tell that to the guys who spend time in wind tunnels tweaking their position 1 mm at a time.

[phishrabbi]

Originally Posted by wyatt_

This is sometimes hard for me to admit (when I want to justify to myself spending $200 on tires) but tires just can't make you fast.

When I see the spread of brands among these winners, it looks pretty clear to me that those marginal gains that tests fixate on don't matter that much in the real world.

A lot of good tires out there these days, not hard to find a good one. Much harder to put in the miles on them.

This is why I'm really eager to see Dylan Johnson's recap video. He seems to have puts loads of thought into his bike set up for this race, and finished 10th.

[spoonrobot]

Some balance as I find it: Brendan Johnston, who finished 15th was on Pirelli tires and had three punctures/pinch flats and eventually was riding on the insert to the checkpoint where he changed his wheel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7urz8gO...en&img_index=2

I've noted that for much of the flat issues I can find in the Men's race, front tire pinch flats seem overrepresented vs. the usual rear puncture or rear pinch flat.

[fourflys]

Originally Posted by wyatt_

A lot of good tires out there these days, not hard to find a good one.

except for Contis.. Contis are da Devil!