The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by Old School

It looks to me like the shift cable is going down the right side of the frame.

I have had the best luck running both cables down the left side of the frame ( a slightly more forgiving loop) and no cables down the right side of the frame. (you can buy blanks-offs for AXS bikes)
which may necessitate a new housing and cable.

however I have successfully added a short flexible cable housing on the end of the shift cable, that was originally designed for underneath bar tape. Along with an easily changed longer inner wire.

I am actually going down the left for the reasons you shared. The right side is hydraulic for the rear brake.

[SonicBoom]

vespasianus: Thanks! Always a pain to spend more money and wait a bit longer, but really feel excited to see this done.

[gfk_velo]

Quick summary post on some of the things I've read over the last few weeks on this thread ...

Hangers - new hangers themselves can be straight as a die (if they are CNC'd, they will be) but the bed that they fit against may not be, so they may still need slight "adjustment" post-fitting. Not uncommon, I'm sorry to say - but given the inaccuracy in press-fit BB shells and in DB mounts, also no great surprise.

Hangers retained on the end of the through axle may shift slightly according to the torque on the through axle - it won't be a lot but it can throw fine index adjustment "off" and adjustment on 13s is quite fine ... I'd recommend using a torque wrench to set the through-axle tightness. This can also help with consistent disc brake caliper positioning. On races a fair few of us use a 10nm preset electric screwdriver for through axle wheel changes now, or something like the small PrestaCycle beam type torque wrench (more practical out on the trail, for sure).

As a general rule (and it's in the spec), if you have a +/-2T difference in the chainring size from the size used when assembling the bike, you shouldn't need to change chain length in most cases.
I say "in most cases" because this is a function of the exact geo of the frame and therefore, the exact point that you join the chain at - there is a possible variation of just under 1" / 25mm in where the chain gets joined, because when determining the "not through the derailleur" length, a frame might not allow a male / female join by a fraction of an inch / mm so you have to add a full link to find the "first place the chain can be joined" - or it might be that the "first place the chain can be joined" allows a fraction of an inch or a couple of mm of "slack".
The B-screw will always require tweaking to accommodate a change in chainring size, or, by the same token, a change in cassette range where the 4 teeth total is also accommodated in the case of 9-44 vs 10-42.

B screw setting is sensitive in Ekar. 9-42 and 10-44 more so than 9-36. The best way I have found to do it on a fair few (100-ish) Ekar set-ups is to use the "rule" in the manual as a start point but then to ease the top jockey "in" so that it runs as close as possible to the cluster without the derailleur cage physically "blocking" against an adjacent sprocket on shifting.

Careful cable prep pays dividends!
When cutting the outer, be a little more generous than you would be with 11 or 12s, perhaps, without going overboard - you don't want to lassoo passers-by but neither do you want to introduce super-tight bends that the inner cable will bind on. Angling the shift / brake levers inwards (unless you take the "rear of bar" route) can cause problems with this, depending on the exact shape of the bar.
Cut the cable ends dead square and file or grind them flat, then be sure to open the nylon liner out into a "bell" - if you don't have the specific tool to do this, you can use an old cable, run it through, pull it to one side at the exit and spin it through 360 degrees around the cable end so that it pushes the liner evenly sideways against the wire of the cable housing to "bell" the nylon liner.
Use the Maximum Smoothness inner. It is not only, as the name suggests, physically smoother than the standard inner but the teflon impregnation and the higher number of finer wire strands means that it is slightly more flexible than the UltraShift inner cable - it moves better in the outer, wears the nylon liner less and gives more consistent shifting. I now use MS inners on all of our Campagnolo builds - yes, it's considerably more expensive but the increased service life of the outers, distributed over that service life, makes it at least as cost-effective as the standard inner and it copes better with complex routes.

Use the "tailed" metal ferrules - the plastic ones that many third parties supply tend to compress and bend about - not ideal in any gearing system but a general no-no with Campagnolo. The "tails" do help at the RD and where there is bare cable, at the exit from the front section and the entry to the rear section.

Not so common these days but worth a mention - be careful around cable guides on externally-routed cables. A plastic guide on the BB shell needs to fit tight to the profile of the BB shell, with no "gap" between the guide and the shell - it also needs to be held firm, with no possibility for it to twist and to be in good condition - nylon guides, especially off road or in poor winter conditions do eventually "keyhole" and as the cable cuts into the guide, the guide grips it, increasing friction significantly enough to affect shifting. Beware the exit of the cable from the guide - sometimes it runs across & rubs on the bottom of the BB end of the chainstay and so extra friction is added there.

Make sure that there are no kinks introduced into the inner cable that then get "hidden" in the outer - so when threading the cable at the shifter, it's advisable to guide the tip of the cable immediately through the guide on the lever, without letting it form a tight loop there, that can result in a kink - I use a small, flat screwdriver to hold the cable down into the guide as I push it through. If you *have* to form a loop - do it in the first 50mm or so of cable which on most frames, won't be included in the tensioned part of the cable at all.
Any kink in the tensioned section is bad news as a fraction of the first index movement of the lever will be used in straightening that kink out, plus, in a full-outer situation it'll cause extra friction - and friction is your enemy.

I've typed it, it seems in the last however many years, a million times - but cassette lockring torque matters! In Ekar (and actually, in 12s too) this is more important because of the construction of the cassette. In Ekar, the spacer in the rear section of 9 or 10 sprockets rattles when the cassette isn't torqued down - when the torque is sufficient, the 9/10 sprocket section compresses width-wise onto that spacer, so setting the exact inter-sprocket distances. Too loose and you won't get the compression (and the sprockets tend to creak), too much and the ends of the spacer can deform (although you have to go well beyond the maximum recommended torques for that to happen).

If you take the cassette apart to remove / clean the spacer (Campagnolo don't recommend it, but ...) make sure to note the orientation of the spider at the back of the cassette relative to the cassette itself. You will see that there is a drilling at the base of one of the teeth on the last sprocket. The stepped tooth in the spider's cassette body splines goes at 90 degrees to that drilled hole. It'll only work one way. This guarantees the orientation of the top cluster relative to the bottom and keeps the shift sweet across the junction. If you take the spider off, reassemble with Loctite 222 or 248 on the screws and torque to 10 nm.

Hope that helps.

[SpeedyChix]

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

Quick summary post on some of the things I've read over the last few weeks on this thread ...
Hope that helps.

Outstanding and thorough info. Thanks for adding to this thread!

[nalax]

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

Quick summary post on some of the things I've read over the last few weeks on this thread ...

Hope that helps.

Like!

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

I'd say it's drag of cable in full length housing that is the culprit.

You're thinking I should not have full length housing?

That's frame design driven...w/o housing stops at the head tube/down tube and back by the rear derailleur. BUT full length housing is more draggy than 'stopped' housing..

[belopsky]

I may set up a bike this winter with ekar, but will hold off on the derailleur and cassette until the weather gets nicer. The plan is to run it single speed.

Is it possible to use the ekar crankset with a single speed cog? I imagine yes as long as I'm using a 13 speed chain?

[Moscone]

If this is new:
Ekar thumbshifter converting to Ultrashift (that u can shift more than 1 gear in a row with the thumb)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fy4YyjS9nY

[Gwerziou]

Originally Posted by Moscone

If this is new:
Ekar thumbshifter converting to Ultrashift (that u can shift more than 1 gear in a row with the thumb)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fy4YyjS9nY

I've been debating that option...

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

I've been debating that option...

First comment, strongly recommending against this mod, seems to be from gfk_velo.

So that certainly would give me pause…

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by thwart

First comment, strongly recommending against this mod, seems to be from gfk_velo.

So that certainly would give me pause…

Well, it certainly invalidates the warranty. But are there any such mods like this that gfk_velo would recommend? I modified 1st generation 11spd Record shifters by swapping the original carbon shift lever and brake blade with silver polished lever & blade from Athena shifters, and am operating Athena front and rear derailleurs with them - they're working great, but I doubt that gfk_velo would approve of this, either. Or the 9spd ErgoPower shifters that I converted to 10spd, which have been working fine for more than a decade. And probably not my next project to swap the guts of an Athena left triple shifter into a Potenza disc brake lever, either.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, it certainly invalidates the warranty. But are there any such mods like this that gfk_velo would recommend? I modified 1st generation 11spd Record shifters by swapping the original carbon shift lever and brake blade with silver polished lever & blade from Athena shifters, and am operating Athena front and rear derailleurs with them - they're working great, but I doubt that gfk_velo would approve of this, either. Or the 9spd ErgoPower shifters that I converted to 10spd, which have been working fine for more than a decade. And probably not my next project to swap the guts of an Athena left triple shifter into a Potenza disc brake lever, either.

Agreed. I think the frequently varied ‘inside’ opinions and insights on Campy stuff from both oldpotatoe and gfk_velo are very useful here.

I think gfk_velo brings up some good reasons to support his position on this mod… not just ‘invalidates the warranty’.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, it certainly invalidates the warranty. But are there any such mods like this that gfk_velo would recommend? I modified 1st generation 11spd Record shifters by swapping the original carbon shift lever and brake blade with silver polished lever & blade from Athena shifters, and am operating Athena front and rear derailleurs with them - they're working great, but I doubt that gfk_velo would approve of this, either. Or the 9spd ErgoPower shifters that I converted to 10spd, which have been working fine for more than a decade. And probably not my next project to swap the guts of an Athena left triple shifter into a Potenza disc brake lever, either.

As someone who came here 4 years ago asking if I could run a H11 shifter with a Centaur RD, I understand doing things "outside" of what Campag recommends. I would also argue that I used that setting for ~6000 miles and I never thought about it. Moved to a "certified RD" because the opportunity came and it looked better!

But, that comment by gfk_velo makes sense - and I agree with his comment on shifting - and I would not think about doing it.

Honestly, EKAR is pretty cheap, very light and well made. And it works really, really well. I trust Campag had a reason to do what they did - and it is not to make you buy the next level groupset (as there is none!).

Also, people are buying EKAR compatible cassettes on Ali-express and again, if they think a $40 Chinese copy is going to work as well - or at all - they are going to be mistaken.

[C40_guy]

A comment and a question.

What a simple, sweet modification!

...and...

Why are people so in favor/against multi gear steps. Yes, we all know/love it on road-going Campy-equipped bikes. Shoot, even my OG 10 speed Nuovo Record downtube shifters could negotiate multiple cogs without pausing.

...so...why is a single step important/preferred on gravel? What would Tullio say?

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

...so...why is a single step important/preferred on gravel? What would Tullio say?

From what I've read, the logic is that when gravel riding they designed it to avoid the inadvertent multi-cog shift, presumably more likely when traveling on rough terrain.