The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

If you are inquiring about using the Ekar derailleur in a 2x12 system, unfortunately the Ekar derailleur is not compliant with a 2x crank. But if you are looking for a wide range system, an Ekar 1x13 system with a 9-42 cassette has a wider range than any Campagnolo 2x system.

Campy's 2x12 with an 11-34 cassette has, for all practical purposes, the same range as their 1x13 with a 9-42 cassette.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Campy's 2x12 with an 11-34 cassette has, for all practical purposes, the same range as their 1x13 with a 9-42 cassette.

Okay, I was being a bit hyperbolic. The widest range Campagnolo 2x12 drivetrain has a 48x32 crank with an 11-34 cassette, which is a total range of 4.64:1, whereas 1x13 with a 9-42 cassette gives a range of 4.66:1 (ever so slightly wider, but essentially the same). But the point remains that a Campagnolo 2x12 system doesn't produce a wider range than possible with a Campagnolo 1x13 system. Personally, I'd still prefer the 2x12 system, as it has smaller steps between gears (on average).

[Blue Jays]

I can certainly see where a rider on bumpy mixed surfaces might prefer Campagnolo Ekar 1x13 system over a Chorus / Record / Super Record 2 x 12 system for chain retention, reduced chain slap, and drivetrain quietness, though.

[picstloup]

has anyone tried one of these on a 12 speed campy chain?...do you think it would work? or is it too narrow...

i've seen a youtube video showing a sram eagle 12 speed connector working although it's a bit wider...

just curious if anyone has tried this...

thanks in advance...
m

[Gwerziou]

Originally Posted by picstloup

has anyone tried one of these on a 12 speed campy chain?...do you think it would work? or is it too narrow...

i've seen a youtube video showing a sram eagle 12 speed connector working although it's a bit wider...

just curious if anyone has tried this...

thanks in advance...
m

I have a 12 speed C link on a Record 12 speed chain and it works noticeably smoother than the SRAM link it replaced.

The 13 speed C link will not work on the 12 speed chain, if that is what you are asking.

[picstloup]

Originally Posted by Gwerziou

I have a 12 speed C link on a Record 12 speed chain and it works noticeably smoother than the SRAM link it replaced.

The 13 speed C link will not work on the 12 speed chain, if that is what you are asking.

I didn't know campy made a 12 speed c-link. I'll have to research.

And yes, I'd only read about a 13 speed c-link, so I was asking about that compatibility.

thanks Gwerziou...

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

I wax my EKAR chain and it is fine. The issue is trying to set up a bike with a freshly waxed chai. As anybody that has waxed a chain knows, the first few miles are a bit messy until everything wears down. Trying to set up shifting in such a situation just won't work.

Set up the bike without waxing the chain and once things are set, feel free to wax. This is true for any groupset - shimano, SRAM or Campagnolo.

An update on everything. With family life, holidays, and work, it was becoming a mental load thinking about the bike and not having it just "ready" to ride so I brought it to my LBS.

1) They saw a misaligned hangar so they fixed that - so odd on a new bike. I previously tried to do this myself with a tool but couldn't figure it out.

2) Suspected the chain was too short and I gave them a 38T chainring to try. I had switched from 38t to 40t to look at the spacing to the frame and hadn't switched it back to see if that was the issue. (Idiot)

3) Cleaned the chain and put regular lube on it.

Those all seemed to help but they said there's one spot on an upshift (easier gear) that doesn't seem perfect. I haven't tried it myself because of time (mentioned above) and weather, but it's kind of gnawing at me.

They suspected that perhaps the cable is too short because if you turn the handlebar, the "loop" (I don't know what to call the semi circle of cabler attached to the derailleur from the frame) will move, increasing and decreasing in length.

I use housing for the whole length of cable from derailleur into the frame to shifter and this is what it looks like: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XwStx3EznJ4grMHJA

My question is, even when the housing was uncut, I thought the loop would move. I'm not sure how it wouldn't move because where else would the cable/housing go? (Shifting cables goes into the left hole of frame from handlebar - from riding position - for more gradual curve)

Should I just have them redo the cabling for peace of mind, if the loop is indeed too short, or perhaps there's something else?

[iPaul]

Well sounds like you made some progress so that’s good. As for cable housing length? Difficult to say but when I had it on two bikes the length went from maybe slightly short to a healthy length of full length housing. For each attempt, downshifting from the larger stack of cogs would not fall in to the next smaller gear unless I moved the handlebars left and right. Then the chain would drop nicely. Kind of like an extra thumb shifter :-).

My goal is in a few weeks to build up a third frame with this group and give it another go. This time it won’t be full housing so another place to rule things out. If not to my liking I’ll take up a shops offer to take a look. Maybe they attend those secret campy closed door meetings and can get it working like so many say it should.

Also, does it work better off the stand when ridden? Mine did improve with “real life” riding?

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

An update on everything. With family life, holidays, and work, it was becoming a mental load thinking about the bike and not having it just "ready" to ride so I brought it to my LBS.

1) They saw a misaligned hangar so they fixed that - so odd on a new bike. I previously tried to do this myself with a tool but couldn't figure it out.

2) Suspected the chain was too short and I gave them a 38T chainring to try. I had switched from 38t to 40t to look at the spacing to the frame and hadn't switched it back to see if that was the issue. (Idiot)

3) Cleaned the chain and put regular lube on it.

Those all seemed to help but they said there's one spot on an upshift (easier gear) that doesn't seem perfect. I haven't tried it myself because of time (mentioned above) and weather, but it's kind of gnawing at me.

They suspected that perhaps the cable is too short because if you turn the handlebar, the "loop" (I don't know what to call the semi circle of cabler attached to the derailleur from the frame) will move, increasing and decreasing in length.

I use housing for the whole length of cable from derailleur into the frame to shifter and this is what it looks like: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XwStx3EznJ4grMHJA

My question is, even when the housing was uncut, I thought the loop would move. I'm not sure how it wouldn't move because where else would the cable/housing go? (Shifting cables goes into the left hole of frame from handlebar - from riding position - for more gradual curve)

Should I just have them redo the cabling for peace of mind, if the loop is indeed too short, or perhaps there's something else?

If the housing runs from shifter to derailleur, unless turning the handlebar pulls the housing out of the Der, it shouldn't make any difference. BUT, I does look too short as does the loop by the derailleur.

I'd say it's drag of cable in full length housing that is the culprit.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

If the housing runs from shifter to derailleur, unless turning the handlebar pulls the housing out of the Der, it shouldn't make any difference. BUT, I does look too short as does the loop by the derailleur.

I'd say it's drag of cable in full length housing that is the culprit.

For most housing designs, the internal cable length increases as the housing is bent. It is a small difference, but this effect can be exaggerated with tight bends, and this can affect indexing performance. But this extra cable length should affect all shift positions, not just one shift position. And as noted by old potato, tight housing bends can also increase friction, which can decrease shifting precision.

One possibility is here is a kink in the cable. Not only can cause a general increase in friction, but there will be extra friction (and a resulting shifting imprecision) as the kink passed through a cable routing transition. For example, if a kink in the cable gets hung up as the cable passe through a cable stop, there may be poor shifting in the sprocket corresponding to that cable position.

[SonicBoom]

I'd say it's drag of cable in full length housing that is the culprit.

You're thinking I should not have full length housing?

[SonicBoom]

One possibility is here is a kink in the cable. Not only can cause a general increase in friction, but there will be extra friction (and a resulting shifting imprecision) as the kink passed through a cable routing transition. For example, if a kink in the cable gets hung up as the cable passe through a cable stop, there may be poor shifting in the sprocket corresponding to that cable position.


Can a kink be fixed? I'm not sure what a kink actually is, is it like a bump in the cable?

I used full house cable to protect the cable within the frame and provide more longevity not sure if that sounds like a mistake now.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Can a kink be fixed? I'm not sure what a kink actually is, is it like a bump in the cable?

I used full house cable to protect the cable within the frame and provide more longevity not sure if that sounds like a mistake now.

A kink is a sharp bend in the cable, like this:



Once the cable is kinked, it can be difficult to get it to be perfectly straight/smooth again, so it is usually best to replace the cable. (On the plus side, full length housing makes cable replacement a breeze.)

Fully internally routed frames typically require full length housing, so there may be no option other than that. Keep in mind that the bends in the cable before it enters and after it exits the frame can make a big difference. Campagnolo makes a specially coated "Maximum Smoothness" cable which minimizes friction with full cable housing. In my experience, full cable housing can still provide excellent shifting with good quality cable and proper cable lengths/bends.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

They suspected that perhaps the cable is too short because if you turn the handlebar, the "loop" (I don't know what to call the semi circle of cabler attached to the derailleur from the frame) will move, increasing and decreasing in length.

I use housing for the whole length of cable from derailleur into the frame to shifter and this is what it looks like: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XwStx3EznJ4grMHJA

My question is, even when the housing was uncut, I thought the loop would move. I'm not sure how it wouldn't move because where else would the cable/housing go? (Shifting cables goes into the left hole of frame from handlebar - from riding position - for more gradual curve)

Should I just have them redo the cabling for peace of mind, if the loop is indeed too short, or perhaps there's something else?

I would have them redo the cabling. If the cable is being "pulled" when you turn the handlebar, you will get ghost shifting and other issues. Does sound short from what you mention.

Running full housing is not a problem. I have run my mountain bikes with full housing for 20+ years. You are close!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Should I just have them redo the cabling for peace of mind, if the loop is indeed too short, or perhaps there's something else?

It looks to me like the shift cable is going down the right side of the frame.

I have had the best luck running both cables down the left side of the frame ( a slightly more forgiving loop) and no cables down the right side of the frame. (you can buy blanks-offs for AXS bikes)
which may necessitate a new housing and cable.

however I have successfully added a short flexible cable housing on the end of the shift cable, that was originally designed for underneath bar tape. Along with an easily changed longer inner wire.