OT: Ray, how's your Bitcoin investment going?

[rice rocket]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

Well,I’m happy for people when they win the lottery too.

You guys….SMH

That's a very myopic view.

[redir]

$60k

It's a weird cycle because there is typically a dip in the halving year. That's not to say there can't be one but people are going crazy out there at the moment. The other weird thing about this cycle is that the alt coins aren't reacting yet.

Sure BTC is volatile and operates at warp speed but if you look at the charts it really follows the Stock market and has typical cycles. The best time to buy is when everyone else is sad, scared, complaining, worried and thinking it's done and over with. Just don't put down any money that you need.

Right now it's over valued compared to its 100 day moving average. Buying under that though has paid off well.

[Mr. Pink]

The SBF sentence is going to be very interesting. If he only gets about ten years, you have to conclude that the whole system is rotten, and he has a ton of info on a lot of powerful people, the same people that want this funny money tap to continue making them rich.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

The SBF sentence is going to be very interesting. If he only gets about ten years, you have to conclude that the whole system is rotten, and he has a ton of info on a lot of powerful people, the same people that want this funny money tap to continue making them rich.

But it's financial freedom from the big banks man!

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by Mr. Pink

The SBF sentence is going to be very interesting. If he only gets about ten years, you have to conclude that the whole system is rotten, and he has a ton of info on a lot of powerful people, the same people that want this funny money tap to continue making them rich.

He was found guilty on 7 counts of fraud with a total of 110 yrs. It's possible he gets a light sentence to serve concurrently, then it is still 20 years. Regardless of his sentence, I don't think the system is rotten.

He did lose 8 billion. Sad thing if he had been able to Holdr , he'd probably be back up in the trade. It's just the market was going to go down until he was wiped out. I see this all the time across markets. Doesn't really matter which asset class or which jurisdiction. It is like a capitalist coup d' grace. Kill the weak. Take what's theirs and go up again.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

He was found guilty on 7 counts of fraud with a total of 110 yrs. It's possible he gets a light sentence to serve concurrently, then it is still 20 years. Regardless of his sentence, I don't think the system is rotten.

He did lose 8 billion. Sad thing if he had been able to Holdr , he'd probably be back up in the trade. It's just the market was going to go down until he was wiped out. I see this all the time across markets. Doesn't really matter which asset class or which jurisdiction. It is like a capitalist coup d' grace. Kill the weak. Take what's theirs and go up again.

I'll be annoyed if he doesn't get a real chunk of time in the joint A poor person steals $800 worth of stuff and gets hammered, while the fraudsters get off lighter.

My sense is that SBF knew what he was doing and deserves a stiff sentence. Holmes was IMO significantly more evil (read Carreyrou's book Bad Blood) and she only got 11 years, but at least she got that.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I'll be annoyed if he doesn't get a real chunk of time in the joint A poor person steals $800 worth of stuff and gets hammered, while the fraudsters get off lighter.

My sense is that SBF knew what he was doing and deserves a stiff sentence. Holmes was IMO significantly more evil (read Carreyrou's book Bad Blood) and she only got 11 years, but at least she got that.

It's tricky. The person stealing a $800 coat in NYC is a class E Felony and max time is 4 years.

Elizabeth Holmes, although I agree was more evil, was only charged with defrauding investors. who happened to all be considered accredited investors who are deemed sophisticated. I think the more evil part of her fraud was actually providing faulty/fake blood tests which potentially had life altering consequences for patients. She was never charged for that. It may not even be considered a crime.

SBF is not all that evil in my opinion. He was just a bit of a clueless guy in over his head in a highly speculative unregulated market. It was always a buyer beware situation. I think 10 years is more than adequate.

He falls into the camp of a person that did not start out as a fraud, but eff-d up along the way and then started digging a hole trying to get out of the situation. A lot of spectacular financial losses start out this way. Nick Leeson at Barings, the copper trades at Sumitomo, etc.

Then there are the more methodical trades which start out as a con from day-one which are rarer, and these are the truly vicious ones. I saw a lot of these in India.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

He did lose 8 billion.

I doubt most people see it that way. I don't.

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

It's tricky. The person stealing a $800 coat in NYC is a class E Felony and max time is 4 years.

Elizabeth Holmes, although I agree was more evil, was only charged with defrauding investors. who happened to all be considered accredited investors who are deemed sophisticated. I think the more evil part of her fraud was actually providing faulty/fake blood tests which potentially had life altering consequences for patients. She was never charged for that. It may not even be considered a crime.

SBF is not all that evil in my opinion. He was just a bit of a clueless guy in over his head in a highly speculative unregulated market. It was always a buyer beware situation. I think 10 years is more than adequate.

He falls into the camp of a person that did not start out as a fraud, but eff-d up along the way and then started digging a hole trying to get out of the situation. A lot of spectacular financial losses start out this way. Nick Leeson at Barings, the copper trades at Sumitomo, etc.

Then there are the more methodical trades which start out as a con from day-one which are rarer, and these are the truly vicious ones. I saw a lot of these in India.

If you read the Carreyrou book, she really does come across as a complete sociopath. And what her lawyers were willing to do was an eye-opener for naive me.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by NHAero

And what her lawyers were willing to do was an eye-opener for naive me.

I'm sure they were all well-payed to do it.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

SBF is not all that evil in my opinion. He was just a bit of a clueless guy in over his head in a highly speculative unregulated market. It was always a buyer beware situation. I think 10 years is more than adequate.

I think his actions go beyond being merely clueless and in over his head. He lent over half of FTX's customer money to Alameda Research (another of his companies), which he did not disclose and was explicitly forbidden by FTS's term-of-service. In other words, basically theft/fraud.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Louis

I'm sure they were all well-payed to do it.

Actually, I believe most of law firm's compensation came in the form of Theranos shares, which may have explained both why they were willing to do some seemingly unethical things, and also meant they ultimately were not well-payed to do it.*

*at least as a firm, for this work. The individual attorneys were still paid well while working on it.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd

I doubt most people see it that way. I don't.

Interesting then what did he do?

[redir]

No doubt about it Holmes is a total sociopath. It's truly amazing how she pulled the wool over so many eyes. I don't think SBF is, I think he just got in over his head. A lucky dumbazz who got all ate up by the crypto bro culture. The two share a similarity in that it's 'start up' culture that gets massive funding and an almost celebrity to it rather then what it actually is. SBF deserves time for his crimes.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by redir

No doubt about it Holmes is a total sociopath. It's truly amazing how she pulled the wool over so many eyes. I don't think SBF is, I think he just got in over his head. A lucky dumbazz who got all ate up by the crypto bro culture. The two share a similarity in that it's 'start up' culture that gets massive funding and an almost celebrity to it rather then what it actually is. SBF deserves time for his crimes.

His social philosophy of effective altuism likely contributed to the rise and fall as well. IMHO and all that.

Moving and mingling customer assets between companies (FTX and Alameda) without their permission, well... there should have been an adult in the room to nix that straight off the bat, but he hadn't hired such people. He was blind to his own myopia (again, IMHO).