The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

I tried it again. I guess I got the indexing to a point in which it will either shift mainly fine and have slight trouble down or the other way around, depending how the minimum turn I make on the ferrule.

Is your experience that the shifting experience in the stand is the same as on the actual road? Wondering if these slight imperfections will just "go away".

Will ask a local bike shop if they've worked with Ekar.

How much is the b-screw impacting things here? I tried to make it the minimum (at or less than the 3mm suggested by Campagnolo) before I notice the derailleur getting caught in the shifts.

I don't know what else to try.

I did not tightly follow the b-screw number. I just made sure it cleared the biggest cog when shifting. I think I am closer to 5mm.

For shifting, I can get all my bikes to shift perfect on the stand and work out any kinks on the road/trail.

Two things that I am a bit anal about that might make a difference (or not) is that I have a really nice torque wrench that I use to make sure everything - including the RD to the frame as well as the rear frame bolt - is torqued to spec. Second, I like to run a clean chain. I know wax, but even before, I liked a clean (not sloppy and wet) chain.

[SonicBoom]

Got it! I'll try 5 mm on b-screw then. That's with the largest cost or the second to largest cog?

My chain is also waxed.

For: including the RD to the frame as well as the rear frame bolt - is torqued to spec, do you mean the bolt from RD to frame and bolt of cable on RD? Not sure what the two different things mentioned are.

[iPaul]

Any chance you could clean the wax off and run with lube? My issues all were with a waxed chain, and though it sound crazy now curious if it is part of the issue.

I did all that was mentioned and still those last few cogs, my chain would jump around hap hazardously. It would work briefly then act up. Pretty frustrating.

Really watching this thread to see what I could be missing.

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Any chance you could clean the wax off and run with lube? My issues all were with a waxed chain, and though it sound crazy now curious if it is part of the issue.

I did all that was mentioned and still those last few cogs, my chain would jump around hap hazardously. It would work briefly then act up. Pretty frustrating.

Really watching this thread to see what I could be missing.

Oh wow, that's like borderline go sell the groupkit for me. But I will leave it as an option and update you.

[iPaul]

Ha, funny. Yea I’m sure it can’t be that silly and my troubles have to be the installer but still seems like there has to be a smoking gun.

[SonicBoom]

Are you riding with your setup now? Have you asked a bike shop for thoughts?

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Got it! I'll try 5 mm on b-screw then. That's with the largest cost or the second to largest cog?

My chain is also waxed.

For: including the RD to the frame as well as the rear frame bolt - is torqued to spec, do you mean the bolt from RD to frame and bolt of cable on RD? Not sure what the two different things mentioned are.

So a newly waxed chain will shift terribly, sound like crap and be generally horrible until a few miles. You can't set up a new bike with a freshly waxed chain.

[nalax]

Last spring I set up my Swiss Cross Disc with Ekar. I found the set-up straightforward after watching the Campy youtube videos and reading earlier posts on PL. Running Ratio chainring and 9-42 on road and gravel wheelsets. Also using waxed chains. I've also used Veloce, Centaur and Potenza groups in the past so maybe I'm just used to Campy but I also have Sram/Shimano on family bikes.
From reading past posts, frame alignment is important as well as the current cassette design. My experience over a couple thousand miles has been excellent shifting except when I found the hanger to be not tight. Tightened it up and shifting was good again.
Waxed chains should not be a problem. Are there any stiff links?

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by nalax

Last spring I set up my Swiss Cross Disc with Ekar. I found the set-up straightforward after watching the Campy youtube videos and reading earlier posts on PL. Running Ratio chainring and 9-42 on road and gravel wheelsets. Also using waxed chains. I've also used Veloce, Centaur and Potenza groups in the past so maybe I'm just used to Campy but I also have Sram/Shimano on family bikes.
From reading past posts, frame alignment is important as well as the current cassette design. My experience over a couple thousand miles has been excellent shifting except when I found the hanger to be not tight. Tightened it up and shifting was good again.
Waxed chains should not be a problem. Are there any stiff links?

I wax my EKAR chain and it is fine. The issue is trying to set up a bike with a freshly waxed chai. As anybody that has waxed a chain knows, the first few miles are a bit messy until everything wears down. Trying to set up shifting in such a situation just won't work.

Set up the bike without waxing the chain and once things are set, feel free to wax. This is true for any groupset - shimano, SRAM or Campagnolo.

[iPaul]

@sonicboom

I gave up, life is too short so put my GRX stuff on and amazing, even with a freshly waxed chain it worked great without a hint of an adjustment. When I had it on a bike I did ride it up and down the street and I would say it ran better than on a stand. I guess there's that.

Yes dialing in this group with a waxed chain may not be the smartest move I've done but it was eventually broken in from the trial rides and hours spent running it while trying to adjust things.

I also put this group on a second frame where me and my trusty Abbey HAG validated the frames were sound. I guess my brand new Levante wheels with cassette torqued down using a very nice torque wrench at max value, could have been off?

For me things ran well from the 9 up to the last 3 largest cogs. Then the chain wouldn't go in to gear consistently, jump two gears, or jump down like 2 to 3 gears. All with less than a 1/16 th of a turn on the barrel. Guess I could have just ran 10 out of the 13 gears. Replaced and routed housing and new wire multiple times and nothing changed.

Wish you luck and I'm sure you'll nail it at some point.

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by nalax

My experience over a couple thousand miles has been excellent shifting except when I found the hanger to be not tight. Tightened it up and shifting was good again.
Waxed chains should not be a problem. Are there any stiff links?

No stiff links. For the hangar, you mean attaching the derailleur to the hangar at torque?

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Trying to set up shifting in such a situation just won't work.

Interesting! Maybe I should just finish the bike build, ride it a bit and then see if the issues improve.

[robertbb]

Originally Posted by iPaul

@sonicboom

I gave up, life is too short so put my GRX stuff on and amazing, even with a freshly waxed chain it worked great without a hint of an adjustment. When I had it on a bike I did ride it up and down the street and I would say it ran better than on a stand. I guess there's that.

Yes dialing in this group with a waxed chain may not be the smartest move I've done but it was eventually broken in from the trial rides and hours spent running it while trying to adjust things.

I also put this group on a second frame where me and my trusty Abbey HAG validated the frames were sound. I guess my brand new Levante wheels with cassette torqued down using a very nice torque wrench at max value, could have been off?

For me things ran well from the 9 up to the last 3 largest cogs. Then the chain wouldn't go in to gear consistently, jump two gears, or jump down like 2 to 3 gears. All with less than a 1/16 th of a turn on the barrel. Guess I could have just ran 10 out of the 13 gears. Replaced and routed housing and new wire multiple times and nothing changed.

Wish you luck and I'm sure you'll nail it at some point.

Anything 12 speeds and beyond needs the micro-adjustability and set-and-forget reliability of electronic. That's just as true of Shimano's new 105 12 speed mechanical, SRAM's 12 speed mechanical Apex and Campy 12 speed road (and even more so eKar 13 speed). Tried them all and concluded thusly.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by robertbb

Anything 12 speeds and beyond needs the micro-adjustability and set-and-forget reliability of electronic. That's just as true of Shimano's new 105 12 speed mechanical, SRAM's 12 speed mechanical Apex and Campy 12 speed road (and even more so eKar 13 speed). Tried them all and concluded thusly.

Doesn't comport with my experience -- approaching 20k miles on my Campy 12 group and, while it hasn't been completely set-and-forget because a couple of components have failed, it has been otherwise just as reliable as my previous 10- and 11-speed groupsets.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Interesting! Maybe I should just finish the bike build, ride it a bit and then see if the issues improve.

I would do that.