The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by Baron Blubba

- Might be a defective pulley wheel—I had one of those on an Ekar set and it worked fine after replacement.

- What rear hub are you using?

- Possibly need to torque the cassette down a bit more.

- Facepalm solution: Is the clutch button disengaged?

I have Ekar on two bikes. After some set up and adjustment headache, it is now rock solid on both bikes and easily my favorite drivetrain. Wish it came in a rim brake version and a wireless version so I could put that stuff on everything like ‘twas Sriracha.

1) DT Swiss 240

2) Torque down = more torque? I tried removing the lockring to check for the spacer (see above) but I can't do it at 55NM. In fact the cassette came disconnected from the hub in the process.

3) Clutch is OK (depressed)

Other questions from others:
I'm in the Sacramento, CA area. The nearest Campagnolo dealer is 1h30 away. I strongly prefer not to go far but also figure out how to do this myself until I start crying (have been close)

See Photos on My Google. (I don't think I can embed photos from Google)

Thanks everyone for the support!

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by herb5998

Is the inconsistent shifting happening across every gear? More toward one end than another? Any pics of the setup could be helpful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Let me try it again and report the behavior, likely with a video.

I'll see if I can tune one by one, from small to large cog.

[Baron Blubba]

Ooooh! Nice Misty Forest Revolt. Fyi, that frameset with Ekar can only take a 38T chainring. A 40T will come within a 1/10th of a millimeter from rubbing the frame.
Sorry, for some reason I thought a different poster was the OP (you), and he was from NJ.

Yeah, a 240 hub should interface just fine with any version (original, second, or current) of the Ekar cassettes, so that’s not the problem.

I meant to increase the torque—but disassemble cassette and grease every cassette interface first.

It’s probably a pulley wheel. Just warranty them with Campy, it’s an easy fix.

[SonicBoom]

Good thing I bought a used 38T to try first. I got the 40T with the groupset. But I'm also sad now that I don't have a 40T option.

I'm having a lot of trouble disassembling the cassette. I used a 11t chain whip and was able to secure it but I put so much force the cassette itself came off, not the lockring.

I really don't want to hurt myself. Any pro advice there?

I bought the groupset new off of eBay and from reading everything here, I'm worried Campagnolo won't service me.

[SonicBoom]

I think I made some progress just focusing on the B screw. I ignored Park Tool and Campagnolo's videos and I just went with the absolute minimum I could get away with and shifted up and down, making changes based on each gear when the current cog hit the derailleur. That seems to have made a huge improvement and I now feels there was real progress.

I feel a lot better and will try to see if I can get closer over the weekend. I've spent multiple hours on this!

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I know PL is full of Campy fans, but this Ekar thread isn't exactly making me run to try it. I'm still on Shimano and SRAM 11s, so haven't even fussed with a 12s bike (though at this point all my MYB buds are on SRAM 12s). Maybe 13 cogs is reaching a functional limit, at least in the cassette width used now?

Been running EKAR for close to 2 years and it has worked perfectly for over 6000 miles. Very simple to set up and run.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

1) DT Swiss 240

2) Torque down = more torque? I tried removing the lockring to check for the spacer (see above) but I can't do it at 55NM. In fact the cassette came disconnected from the hub in the process.

3) Clutch is OK (depressed)

Other questions from others:
I'm in the Sacramento, CA area. The nearest Campagnolo dealer is 1h30 away. I strongly prefer not to go far but also figure out how to do this myself until I start crying (have been close)

See Photos on My Google. (I don't think I can embed photos from Google)

Thanks everyone for the support!

From the pictures (sorry if I am wrong), it looks you have a ferule at the end of the cable going into the shifter.


With Campagnolo systems, you can't use a ferule - just the cable end into the shifter. If you do that, the shifting will be terrible - my first Campag system was in 2020 and I learned that the hard way.

Also, if you are running the 9-42 cassette, the lock-ring is on the 9T cog.

I use a this chain whip for all my 11+ speed bikes:

https://www.amazon.com/QKURT-Cassett...%2C114&sr=8-21

And for the the lock-ring:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

From the pictures (sorry if I am wrong), it looks you have a ferule at the end of the cable going into the shifter.

That, IMHO, is a very good catch by @vespasianus. I will be surprised if removing that doesn't make everything hunky dory.

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

From the pictures (sorry if I am wrong), it looks you have a ferule at the end of the cable going into the shifter.

With Campagnolo systems, you can't use a ferule - just the cable end into the shifter. If you do that, the shifting will be terrible - my first Campag system was in 2020 and I learned that the hard way.

That's right! I'll get that removed

Also, if you are running the 9-42 cassette, the lock-ring is on the 9T cog.

That's where I have it now - I apologize if this sounds idiotic, is there a possibility of not putting the lock-ring on the 9T cog? I always it goes on top of the outermost (smallest) cog

I use a this chain whip for all my 11+ speed bikes:

https://www.amazon.com/QKURT-Cassett...%2C114&sr=8-21

Will order now!

And for the the lock-ring:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yes, I've been using this

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I know PL is full of Campy fans, but this Ekar thread isn't exactly making me run to try it. I'm still on Shimano and SRAM 11s, so haven't even fussed with a 12s bike (though at this point all my MYB buds are on SRAM 12s). Maybe 13 cogs is reaching a functional limit, at least in the cassette width used now?

Many, many instances of EKAR working great for a lot of people. shimano and sram have had their 'moments' too, with regards to things not working. sram front ders, shimano cranks, sram brakes, shimano cassettes breaking...so...Sonic has something going on..Could be the group, could be something else but I wouldn't paint all of EKAR s past some functional limit.

From the pictures (sorry if I am wrong), it looks you have a ferule at the end of the cable going into the shifter.

With Campagnolo systems, you can't use a ferule - just the cable end into the shifter. If you do that, the shifting will be terrible - my first Campag system was in 2020 and I learned that the hard way.

That's right! I'll get that removed

It could very well be that simple..the levers have teeny brass washers in the holes where the der housing lives..if they aren't there or turned sideways(ask me how I know), that does goon up shifting.

That's where I have it now - I apologize if this sounds idiotic, is there a possibility of not putting the lock-ring on the 9T cog? I always it goes on top of the outermost (smallest) cog

Also, if you are running the 9-42 cassette, the lock-ring is on the 9T cog.

Page 44 and 46 of the below...

https://support.campagnolo.com/media...rt_B_Rev00.pdf

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Yes, I've been using this

Removing the ferule will impact shifting and you will have to redo all your adjustments - as they are most likely way out of wack. It is a pain but it should help a ton.

Regarding the lockring, I should have been clearer but the 9T cog IS the lockring. It should be a single piece. Could you have the 10-44 cassette?

Also, I put some heavy duty grease on the lockring - as the torque figures always scare me and make me afraid I will never get it apart again!

Lastly, I have found for all 12 and 13 speed systems, go easy on the chain lube. Just a light coating of oil/wax and wipe clean. I can't tell you how many people I have helped "fix" their shifting by just cleaning their chain.

I will say, I also feel your pain. I was a Shimano guy (still am on my MTB) but decided to try Campag on a new Italian bike (long story). That bike took a while so I bought another bike frame to install and went through a lot of what you are going through. Ended up with EKAR on the Italian bike when it finally came in (did not want it) and love it.

[SonicBoom]

So an update - I got this done. It took me a while because the space between the cable (I am using housing within the frame) and bottom brack was really tight, and I had to remove the BB (I couldn't figure out what tool to use and ended up punching it out with an Icetoolz one. Not a perfect fit but other Shimano/SRAM focused tools wouldn't work at all). The shifting appears to be the same as before, but the ferule at the shifter was noticeably affected so I can see there was serious stress there. I did try retuning the shifting and my hope is that it's some combination of the b-limit and cable tension that will get me to functionality

Yes, I have 9T/42. I can't remove the cassette, even after I got the chain whip mentioned above - I'll ask a LBS to do it when I do my bike fit and then greater the cassette.

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Removing the ferule will impact shifting and you will have to redo all your adjustments - as they are most likely way out of wack. It is a pain but it should help a ton.

Regarding the lockring, I should have been clearer but the 9T cog IS the lockring. It should be a single piece. Could you have the 10-44 cassette?



Also, I put some heavy duty grease on the lockring - as the torque figures always scare me and make me afraid I will never get it apart again!

Lastly, I have found for all 12 and 13 speed systems, go easy on the chain lube. Just a light coating of oil/wax and wipe clean. I can't tell you how many people I have helped "fix" their shifting by just cleaning their chain.

I will say, I also feel your pain. I was a Shimano guy (still am on my MTB) but decided to try Campag on a new Italian bike (long story). That bike took a while so I bought another bike frame to install and went through a lot of what you are going through. Ended up with EKAR on the Italian bike when it finally came in (did not want it) and love it.

[vespasianus]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

So an update - I got this done. It took me a while because the space between the cable (I am using housing within the frame) and bottom brack was really tight, and I had to remove the BB (I couldn't figure out what tool to use and ended up punching it out with an Icetoolz one. Not a perfect fit but other Shimano/SRAM focused tools wouldn't work at all). The shifting appears to be the same as before, but the ferule at the shifter was noticeably affected so I can see there was serious stress there. I did try retuning the shifting and my hope is that it's some combination of the b-limit and cable tension that will get me to functionality

Yes, I have 9T/42. I can't remove the cassette, even after I got the chain whip mentioned above - I'll ask a LBS to do it when I do my bike fit and then greater the cassette.

Your adjustments are most likely completely out of wack and are going to require some work. At this point, it might be worth just taking it to a good bike shop to have them help.

[ducati2]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Your adjustments are most likely completely out of wack and are going to require some work. At this point, it might
be worth just taking it to a good bike shop to have them help.

I have been working on Campagnolo bikes as an amateur mechanic for decades. I set up a new frame with Ekar at the beginning of the year and it shifted great and ran silent for about 1500 miles. Since then, I cannot get my Ekar to perform well for any extended period of time. Both shift/brake levers have had to be replaced under warranty this year. I have had the bike in to the local Campagnolo pro shop at least six times this year. They can’t get it to work. The cassette was replaced under warranty as it was suspected to be a possible issue. I have spent over $750 trying to get it to shift accurately and quietly. Finally, some magic happened and at least it shifted correctly, although the drivetrain was very load as usual. I tool the rear wheel off to top off the sealant and now the chain skips all over the cassette under load. I have gone through all of the usual protocols to address a skipping chain. No bueno. I should have left the wheel on the bike when I serviced the sealant. There is chatter all over the web about similar experiences with Ekar. Not so with other Campagnolo group sets that I can find. I really enjoyed my foray into fat tire, disc brakes, 1x, etc. Sadly, not so much and the bike sits unridden for the most part.

[SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by vespasianus

Your adjustments are most likely completely out of wack and are going to require some work. At this point, it might be worth just taking it to a good bike shop to have them help.

I tried it again. I guess I got the indexing to a point in which it will either shift mainly fine and have slight trouble down or the other way around, depending how the minimum turn I make on the ferrule.

Is your experience that the shifting experience in the stand is the same as on the actual road? Wondering if these slight imperfections will just "go away".

Will ask a local bike shop if they've worked with Ekar.

How much is the b-screw impacting things here? I tried to make it the minimum (at or less than the 3mm suggested by Campagnolo) before I notice the derailleur getting caught in the shifts.

I don't know what else to try.