The 'Un-Official' Campagnolo Ekar thread

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by nighthawk

Others can correct me, but I don't think DT makes lockrings, so I'd just go with the Campagnolo ones I linked above, but there are a lot of aftermarket options too (shimano, wolftooth, sram, zipp, tektro, TRP, enve, etc). Assuming your hubs are 12mm TA, so most lockrings for TAs out there should work. Some are splined internal, some external, just a different tool for install and removal.

DT hubs have internal Center Lock lockring threads, and use standard Center Lock lockrings (as made by Shimano, SRAM, Wolftooth, Tektro, etc.), whereas Campagnolo/Fulcrum hubs have external lockring threads, and use proprietary lockrings. So the Campagnolo lockrings linked above won't work on a DT hub. (This is probably why Campagnolo/Fulcrum hubs come with their own lockring.)

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Could a standard Shimano rotor lockring like this be compatible?

Shimano should be a safe bet with a DT Swiss hub. I'd be more concerned that the Campagnolo lockring could be specific to the Campag/Fulcrum hubs and so wouldn't work with the DT Swiss hub. EDIT: Mark confirmed above.

[SonicBoom]

I was able to use a standard lockring from Wolf Tooth.

[SonicBoom]

I'm just having so much trouble. The current status is I think my limits and bscrew are good, but I can't get consistent shifting up and down the cassette. Certain things skip, and I'm not sure it's even consistent - maybe I'm not shifting properly? (I'm new to Campy and Ekar; this is a new bike build)

Originally Posted by gfk_velo

That's a common problem with Ekar if the set-up isn't quite right.
Things to check ...

1. Gear hanger tightness (I'm assuming that alignment has been checked with the hanger in situ, using the wheel as a reference - normally, anyway, mis-alignment gives problems first in the mid-range, not the ends of the travel, unless it's extreme).

Not sure about how to get this right. If I visually check this when setting the low limit, there seems to be space at the bottom part of the chain - I can push the derailleur in slightly to close the gap. However, I find this makes the shift up and then down to the smallest cog difficult. It simply won't bottom out. This makes me assume that I should ignore the visual.

2. Top pivot bolt torque


OK

3. Campagnolo Maximum Smoothness gear inner (not the standard inner / 3rd party)

OK

4. Outer cables ends cut square and nylon liner ends "belled" slightly to minimise friction

Not sure what this means - cables are fairly square (straight) but I don't know how to bell the nylon liner

5. Do not lubricate the inner - this can cause cable stiction as it tends to "hydraulic", i.e. the oil or grease can actually end up impeding motion

OK

6. Metal ferrule with a "tail" (as supplied in the Maximum Smoothness cable kit), not plastic, at the RD adjuster

OK

7. Through-axle torque.

OK (Put at 12nm, can't find an official spec for 2023 Giant Revolt Advanced Pro)

8. Any play, with through axle at correct torque, in the wheel bearings.

Can't tell this.

9. Cassette lockring torque 55 - 65nm (normally 65nm is the absolute factory-tested max)

I used 55. Was not easy to torque that.

10. No play in the cassette body

I think this is ok, if there's play, it seems hard to discover.

11. Chain length

I used Campagnolo's video guide on YouTube.

12. Check the high limit screw setting - it's easy to be misled on Ekar as the derailleur cage flares "out" slightly at the bottom.

I guess this is what I described above. But if I'm being misled, what is the correct settinbg?

13. Check the B-screw setting - most very wide range cassettes are extremely sensitive to this. Basically, run the RD as close to the sprockets as you can, without the cage blocking against them at any point in it's travel.

I think I have this down to the point if I do more, I can't shift without hitting the cage.

I've also found it useful to check / do three other things ...

14. It's good practice - but many mechanics don't do it - set the high limit screw *without* the cable pinched at the pinch bolt, so that you absolutely ensure that the only thing limiting the outwards movement of the RD is the limit screw. This ensures that you are not unwittingly pre-tensioning the cable.

I've done this.

15. When you pull the slack out of the inner cable, make sure that the cable adjuster is screwed almost all the way in and try to manage how tight you manually pull the inner cable through, so that the adjuster stays screwed into the RD as far as possible - that limits how much the adjuster "waggles" in the threads. Again, this is good practice in almost any index derailleur system.

I've tried leaving no able to screw it in further and up to 3 half turns on the adjuster.

16. Once everything is in place, shift part way up the cassette to put tension on the inner cable, undo the Ergopower mounting bolt a turn or two and push the lever hard "up" the bar to make absolutely certain the outer cable is fully seated against the washer at the base of the cable port, before re-tightening. With Ekar I have found it doubly useful to wind insulating tape all the way from the lever to the point where the bar tape will end, to secure the outer very firmly to the bar - this prevents any cable movement / creep under the handlebar tape (as well as making it easier to change the tape when you get to that point ...)

I'm not here yet.

I've set up Ekar probably 100 times now with no issues ... but it does repay careful attention to the above points - being 13s, tolerances are correspondingly finer than 11s (the jump many people are making), or even than 12s, for obvious reasons ...

[iPaul]

You are describing the same issues I had with Ekar or maybe just Campy in general. Installed on two different bikes and same issue. Swapped chain length, no difference. New housing, cable nothing. As you mentioned I’m also new to campy so maybe it’s my Shimano trained style of how I shift.

If you figure it out please let me know. I’m moving on for now.

[herb5998]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

I'm just having so much trouble. The current status is I think my limits and bscrew are good, but I can't get consistent shifting up and down the cassette. Certain things skip, and I'm not sure it's even consistent - maybe I'm not shifting properly? (I'm new to Campy and Ekar; this is a new bike build)

Is the inconsistent shifting happening across every gear? More toward one end than another? Any pics of the setup could be helpful.


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[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

I'm just having so much trouble. The current status is I think my limits and bscrew are good, but I can't get consistent shifting up and down the cassette. Certain things skip, and I'm not sure it's even consistent - maybe I'm not shifting properly? (I'm new to Campy and Ekar; this is a new bike build)

No real way to shift 'improperly'...if the shifter clicks, the chain will move to the selected cog BUT...You say it 'skips'? Like noise or trying to move to the adjacent cog?

Where are you located? Maybe time for somebody else to look at it.

[Baron Blubba]

- Might be a defective pulley wheel—I had one of those on an Ekar set and it worked fine after replacement.

- What rear hub are you using?

- Possibly need to torque the cassette down a bit more.

- Facepalm solution: Is the clutch button disengaged?

I have Ekar on two bikes. After some set up and adjustment headache, it is now rock solid on both bikes and easily my favorite drivetrain. Wish it came in a rim brake version and a wireless version so I could put that stuff on everything like ‘twas Sriracha.

[iPaul]

Don’t want to step on the recent posters experience but for me it’s at the last few larger 3 gears or so. Smaller ones run as Mr. Spud suggests, click and to the next cog.
I have run through all the recommendations but still fight being consistent through the full range of gears. And yep, torqued cassette at the max limit. The pulley suggestion is a new one for me.

[NHAero]

I know PL is full of Campy fans, but this Ekar thread isn't exactly making me run to try it. I'm still on Shimano and SRAM 11s, so haven't even fussed with a 12s bike (though at this point all my MYB buds are on SRAM 12s). Maybe 13 cogs is reaching a functional limit, at least in the cassette width used now?

[Baron Blubba]

Originally Posted by iPaul

Don’t want to step on the recent posters experience but for me it’s at the last few larger 3 gears or so. Smaller ones run as Mr. Spud suggests, click and to the next cog.
I have run through all the recommendations but still fight being consistent through the full range of gears. And yep, torqued cassette at the max limit. The pulley suggestion is a new one for me.

I just noticed you’re in Central NJ. If you’d like to let the guys at my shop try and figure it out, they have a lot of experience with Ekar, including troubleshooting. It’s quiet these days so the process won’t take long unless there’s a defective part we don’t have in stock. It’s B3 Bikes in Howell.

[iPaul]

Wow Thanks for the offer. I’d jump on this offer but unfortunately my frame was swapped back over to a Grx group. I really want to get this to work as advertised as there’s a lot to love but I’ve built lots of sram and shimano bikes and never struggled like I am with this group. Not a hater of campy at all as was a huge fan of early chorus.

I’ll reach out as I may find a frame to hang it on and I’m pretty sure I’ll reach the same point. If you want to toss the shifter, derailleur and cassette on to something you have I’d be happy to lend what I have and hopefully learn something. May find a new shop in the process ;-).

[nighthawk]

Originally Posted by NHAero

I know PL is full of Campy fans, but this Ekar thread isn't exactly making me run to try it. I'm still on Shimano and SRAM 11s, so haven't even fussed with a 12s bike (though at this point all my MYB buds are on SRAM 12s). Maybe 13 cogs is reaching a functional limit, at least in the cassette width used now?

Anecdotal, but I've been happy with my ekar experience. Only issue that came up for me with install was needing to unstuck one of the brake pistons... which may have been more my inexperience with disc brakes than an issue with the caliper. Ended up being an easy fix.

[Gwerziou]

I've found that in addition to the listed points above, you have to have the overall cable tension within a certain window - but having said that, I don't know how to describe that window. I had a tendency to make the tension too high which would produce skipping and other issues that many describe having.

[SonicBoom]

Where is this spacer? Is this is cassette locking?

Mine is gray. I don't remember any other components other than than two cassette parts.

I put my torque at 55nm and am looking to unlock the lockring to see if the spacer is something else, but I can't unlock it. It's incredibly difficult at this torque (for me).