ENVE advising LBSs to not support open tubular tires

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by pdmtong

ahh, I got it now...thanks

Any time Paul.

[Mark McM]

Enve is also the only rim I've heard of that can literally explode if the a different brand of tubeless tape is used (explode as in burst apart).

[gone]

This is so stupid. Obviously Enve preemptively avoiding litigation. I've got more than 100K miles on Vittoria Corsas on Enve rims and other carbon rims (Bontrager, Specialized, Zipp) with no issues.

Currently running last gen Paves on some Enves and getting ready to replace them with Corsa controls.

I'll probably die.

[Black Dog]

So if Enve has a sharp edge on their bead hooks and this edge is causing tire failures on some tires and other rim makers that have have rounded edges do not have issues, why doesn't Enve just....hmmmmmm....I dunno.....just get rid of the sharp edge and be done with this! Stop paying lawyers for advice and pay an engineer for some advice.

This is such bad PR for them. I am wondering if all these issues are happening post acquisition (IIRC, they went through an ownership change or some sort of big management upheaval).

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

So if Enve has a sharp edge on their bead hooks and this edge is causing tire failures on some tires and other rim makers that have have rounded edges do not have issues, why doesn't Enve just....hmmmmmm....I dunno.....just get rid of the sharp edge and be done with this! Stop paying lawyers for advice and pay an engineer for some advice.

This is such bad PR for them. I am wondering if all these issues are happening post acquisition (IIRC, they went through an ownership change or some sort of big management upheaval).

accept the story mentions they also find failures on other mfg rims?

[spinarelli]

failures have been consistent in our test lab on a variety of other manufacture's rims, both alloy and carbon

Interesting that they include other manufacturers' alloy rims are experiencing the same failures. I'd like to pool our forum knowledge and see how many of us had this happen on alloy rims.

Personally, I've used vittoria open tubulars for about 15 years. evo corsa, open corsa SC and G+. I must have gone through 20+ pairs in this time. I've never experienced this kind of damage to the sidewall near the bead.

[Spdntrxi]

^ I've never had this failure on any rims... including the roughly 10 sets on Enve's I owned or still own.

[ergott]

Little update

I have a set of AR4.5s here and the tire area is much improved over the other clinchers I've worked with. Perhaps it has to do with these being hookless, but things are very tidy.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by spinarelli

failures have been consistent in our test lab on a variety of other manufacture's rims, both alloy and carbon

Interesting that they include other manufacturers' alloy rims are experiencing the same failures. I'd like to pool our forum knowledge and see how many of us had this happen on alloy rims.

Personally, I've used vittoria open tubulars for about 15 years. evo corsa, open corsa SC and G+. I must have gone through 20+ pairs in this time. I've never experienced this kind of damage to the sidewall near the bead.

Sure, but we have to take their word for this. If they are serious they will publish a white paper on the matter with the rims they tested on and the tires and, of course, a detailed test protocol. Otherwise it is an unsubstantiated claim that can not be independently verified.

[jtbadge]

Originally Posted by spinarelli

failures have been consistent in our test lab on a variety of other manufacture's rims, both alloy and carbon

Interesting that they include other manufacturers' alloy rims are experiencing the same failures. I'd like to pool our forum knowledge and see how many of us had this happen on alloy rims.

Personally, I've used vittoria open tubulars for about 15 years. evo corsa, open corsa SC and G+. I must have gone through 20+ pairs in this time. I've never experienced this kind of damage to the sidewall near the bead.

I think we'll find a lot of issues with Challenge and Veloflex open tubulars being unsafe on any rim. Less or none for Vittoria.

I personally had a set of Challenge Strada Biancas that was good for about 800-1000 miles and then delaminated at the tread and the sidewall. Glad I caught it at home and not mid-ride.

[windsurfer]

Looking forward to steep price cuts on corsa-g's

[parallelfish]

I have about 2k miles on a set of Corsa G’s on Enve 3.2 wheels. Just checked them. The rim bead area feels well finished, and the tire bead area shows no wear when compared to a new tire.

The press release indicates the issue is hard to spot visually, so perhaps this is a meaningless exercise.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by ergott

Little update

I have a set of AR4.5s here and the tire area is much improved over the other clinchers I've worked with. Perhaps it has to do with these being hookless, but things are very tidy.

I have not checked my 5.6disc... but my 4.5AR and G27's are smooth as butter.(hookless)

[adrien]

Well, I took my corsas off, really more as an excuse to try GP 5000s.

The corsas looked just fine. LBS told me that the only time they have seen issues is when folks either run them at lower pressures and/or don't pump them up every ride...which leads me to think it's as much user issues as anything.

FWIW, I like the wheels, and the GP5000s are great.

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by adrien

Well, I took my corsas off, really more as an excuse to try GP 5000s.

The corsas looked just fine. LBS told me that the only time they have seen issues is when folks either run them at lower pressures and/or don't pump them up every ride...which leads me to think it's as much user issues as anything.

FWIW, I like the wheels, and the GP5000s are great.

I honestly think that the main culprit for the damage observed by Enve is the wide rim / low pressure / increased flex combination. That combined with their slightly stiffer / sharper carbon bead hook and rim vs alloy counterparts is a recipe for early and catastrophic failure.

Enve's been at the forefront of super-wide internal rim diameters with their promises of lower pressures, decreased rolling resistance and increased compliance/comfort. The only other large-scale rim manufacturer to push the "wider is better" mantra more aggressively has been HED, but they've stuck with alloy for much longer than almost everyone. The increased flex and smoother bead of the alloy rim could be the better conduit for dealing with the increased casing flex than the super-stiff, deep carbon rims.

But this is all speculation until Enve or another rim manufacturer starts putting out some white papers for peer review.