OT: NAR agrees to $418 million in damages. A boon to home sellers/buyers?

[NHAero]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Although you will from time to time hear breath taking stories of the actions of bad lawyers, attorneys are highly regulated. The result that usually follows egregious bad acts is disbarment. And there goes years of schooling and your livelihood. Would you like fries with that?

There are dishonest plumbers, contractors, engineers and most any profession you can name. Doing a little study and using common sense can help you avoid them.

I've definitely seen my share of unscrupulous building contractors and subcontractors over my decades of work, including a plumber on my own renovation in 2013. But I'll say again, separating competence from ethics, I just haven't encountered that issue with attorneys, doctors, dentists, engineers, architects, and surveyors, and that's over a 45 year career.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by NHAero

As .RJ says, low barrier to entry. I think it's similar to people working for investment firms, the ones where they get a % of your assets win or lose, and they steer you to investments they make the most from with fees.

I remember when a friend who'd been a school teacher for 25 years was all of a sudden an investment advisor at the local Merrill Lynch or similar (can't recall). So if I walk in there tomorrow, he's gonna advise me on how to invest my money?

I've had a not so great dentist but at least he had to study a long time to earn that Dr.

I wish the ones I dealt with were the fly-by-night types, but they weren't. A few are brokers, and the one who didn't want to offer advice on pricing is a broker in a major city who taught RE courses at a local university as an adjunct. It was somewhat inconceivable that he'd balk at offering suggestions on how to make a competitive offer.

[avalonracing]

Originally Posted by benb

...Not really sure what I think about Realtors but IMO attorneys would be way up the list of professions harshly judged by the public without reason, often times by people who might have never actually had any direct experience with an attorney!

Surely you've heard the line "99% of lawyers give the other 1% a bad name". That can be said about real estate agents, cops, mechanics, or any other group that someone has had a bad experience with (or heard about a friend's friend who had a bad experience so they want to sound in-the-know by repeating it).

I've done residential real estate for a long time and have sold hundreds of houses (some to and for people I have met on the Paceline). In that time I've met horrible agents who should not be in the business and fantastic agents who I would personally use if I were looking for an agent. What is interesting is sometimes agents who only sell 10 homes a year are great and some who sell a hundred a year I wouldn't buy an ice cream from.

[XXtwindad]

One interesting ramification of the recent lawsuit: you have to sign a disclosure document and leave your contact info when viewing an open house. Otherwise, the realtor isn’t allowed to disclose any information to you.

Fun fact: W. Kamau Bell arrived a few minutes before I did. Loved his show.

[sfo1]

Not in CA. You are not required to sign anything. If you want info on the house (you walked into) from the agent, they can answer Qs all day long about the house.

Once the discussion diverts away to (a) do you have any other listings (b) are you working with an agent (c) I have an off market property a few blocks away (d) etc. then you need to have one of three forms signed.

The new landscape will not be so good for newer agents that typically would hold other agents properties open so they can pick up buyers. I think we'll see more agents leaver the biz vs. new licensees on an annual basis (in CA).

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

One interesting ramification of the recent lawsuit: you have to sign a disclosure document and leave your contact info when viewing an open house. Otherwise, the realtor isn’t allowed to disclose any information to you.

Fun fact: W. Kamau Bell arrived a few minutes before I did. Loved his show.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by sfo1

Not in CA. You are not required to sign anything. If you want info on the house (you walked into) from the agent, they can answer Qs all day long about the house.

Once the discussion diverts away to (a) do you have any other listings (b) are you working with an agent (c) I have an off market property a few blocks away (d) etc. then you need to have one of three forms signed.

The new landscape will not be so good for newer agents that typically would hold other agents properties open so they can pick up buyers. I think we'll see more agents leaver the biz vs. new licensees on an annual basis (in CA).

Interesting. That’s not what the realtor told me. Everyone signed when they walked in. (This is the East Bay Area)

[hellvetica]

You absolutely in California must sign to view properties. No idea where you got that.

[sfo1]

I am an active broker in SF. I’ll stick with my legal guidance on open house protocol ( which is a neighbor, buyer or random passer by can enter and not sign in).

Originally Posted by hellvetica

You absolutely in California must sign to view properties. No idea where you got that.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by sfo1

I am an active broker in SF. I’ll stick with my legal guidance on open house protocol ( which is a neighbor, buyer or random passer by can enter and not sign in).

Not my area of expertise, but it certainly does appear to be the law: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqzmAtQe1g

https://www.bubbleinfo.com/2024/08/0...house-sign-in/

“Starting next weekend, this is the form you will see at every open house in California. It is a mandatory form, and EVERY visitor must sign it or they won’t be allowed to view the home.”

I’m not sure what the purpose of the new requirement is.

[sfo1]

I don’t think we are geo limited on the “ rules” in CA. CAR sets the protocol, forms and rules. In short, you cannot force someone to sign anything. Sure, you can be a pushy agent and tell someone they cannot enter the home if they don’t sign in. But is that necessary? Different markets and price points would dictate that answer.

If someone does not want to sign the OHNA-SI, then limit the conversation to info only on the home and or what is on the statement. Nothing else.

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Not my area of expertise, but it certainly does appear to be the law: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hzqzmAtQe1g

https://www.bubbleinfo.com/2024/08/0...house-sign-in/

“Starting next weekend, this is the form you will see at every open house in California. It is a mandatory form, and EVERY visitor must sign it or they won’t be allowed to view the home.”

I’m not sure what the purpose of the new requirement is.

[fijichf]

Originally Posted by NHAero

But I'll say again, separating competence from ethics, I just haven't encountered that issue with attorneys, doctors, dentists, engineers, architects, and surveyors, and that's over a 45 year career.

You are quite fortunate in the company that you keep, as my wife’s career has been focused on investigating and prosecuting attorneys, doctors and accountants, as they are the prime culprits associated with the majority of white collar crimes. Embezzlement, banking fraud, insurance fraud, healthcare fraud and malpractice to name but a few. Engineering, architecture and surveying claims primarily consist of errors and omissions and sadly, she’s been involved in a few cases where the individual/firm did their best to sweep the proverbial issue under the rug.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/white-collar_crime

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by fijichf

You are quite fortunate in the company that you keep, as my wife’s career has been focused on investigating and prosecuting attorneys, doctors and accountants, as they are the prime culprits associated with the majority of white collar crimes. Embezzlement, banking fraud, insurance fraud, healthcare fraud and malpractice to name but a few. Engineering, architecture and surveying claims primarily consist of errors and omissions and sadly, she’s been involved in a few cases where the individual/firm did their best to sweep the proverbial issue under the rug.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/white-collar_crime

The fish rots from the head, what about politicians and lobbyists?

[zap]

Went to an open house* this past Saturday. Was not asked to sign anything. If I was, I would have turned around and walked out.

This in NC.

*House is in my neighborhood so was looking to see how it aged as our house is of similar build.

[echappist]

I can understand a buy-side agent requesting signed paperwork before accompanying a buyer. The "sign-here" or you don't get to tour the open house thing just doesn't make a lot of sense.

If I were the seller, in particular in a seller's market, I'd ask my agent why exactly this barrier is needed, and whose interest it protects. Often times in seller's markets, that's the only time a buyer tours a place, and I would not want to artificially reduce number of interested buyers (even if there may be looky-loos).

Actually, if I were the seller, I'd have this ironed out before signing the engagement contract with my own (seller's) agent. If this is a sticking point, and if my RE attorney says such signing is not needed, I'd go find someone else.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by echappist

I'd ask my agent why exactly this barrier is needed, and whose interest it protects

All of these laws and regulations around the home sale process exist to protect the interest of the realtor business and the NAR - they spend $50M a year lobbying.